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Wednesday, 1 January 2025

Against Litigious II

 Litigious:The phrase apo archē (ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς) is context-dependent. While it often refers to a temporal starting point, it can also emphasize a state of existence or origin. For example:

• 1 John 1:1: "That which was from the beginning (apo archē), which we have heard..." Contextually, this refers to the eternal existence of the Logos (Christ), consistent with John 1:1 ("In the beginning was the Word").

Myself:that is tremendously circular even by trinitarian standards what in the "context " mandates a departure from the default.

Litigious:• John 8:44: Jesus says the devil "has been a murderer from the beginning (apo archē)," referring to the devil's enduring nature rather than a specific moment in time.

Myself there was a definite moment when he became the slanderer.

Ezekiel ch.28:15NIV"You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you."


Litigious:Thus, apo archē in 1 John 1:1 underscores Christ’s eternal existence, not a created origin.

Myself:Argument by assertion and circular logic fallacy.


Litigious:Reputable translations (e.g., NASB, ESV, NIV) are based on rigorous textual analysis and scholarly consensus. Even non-Trinitarian scholars often reject the claim that Proverbs 8 or Colossians 1 teaches Christ's creation. The insertion of "other" in the New World Translation (e.g., Colossians 1:16-17) reflects theological bias, as the word "other" does not appear in the Greek text.

Myself:Why is it that you people are ALWAYS the first, as in every single time ,to mention the NWT You people far more obsessed with the NWT than I,I said and I say again that The word "all" is ROUTINELY used with sensible exceptions throughout the scriptures as at Genesis ch.3:20 where Eve is called the mother of ALL with sensible exceptions, the use of the prepositions "en" and "dia" which are NEVER EVER used of JEHOVAH'S Role in creation indicate the Logos is Not the source of the energy and information manifest in creation.


Litigious:Bruce Metzger, a renowned textual critic, highlights how the Watchtower Society’s translation of Colossians 1:16-17 distorts the text to align with Arian theology, an approach inconsistent with sound exegesis.

Myself:I promise to never use the NWT In our discussion O.K


Litigious:In conclusion, the broader biblical and linguistic evidence overwhelmingly supports the eternal pre-existence of Christ as the Logos and Wisdom of God. Proverbs 8 poetically describes Wisdom's role in creation without implying ontological creation. Colossians 1:15-17 and Revelation 3:14 affirm Christ's supremacy and role as Creator, not a created being. Your interpretation relies on selective readings, misunderstandings of language, and theological presuppositions inconsistent with the full biblical witness.

Myself: all I see more extremely circular logic and argument by assertion. The assertion that your position is true is evidence of nothing especially if you are arguing for a departure from the mutually agreed upon default.

Among the examples of dia being used to denote instrumentality by thayers lexicon we have John ch.1:3 ,1Corinthians ch.8:6,Hebrews ch.1:2,colossians ch.1:16


https://biblehub.com/thayers/1223.htm

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