Against Litigious III

Litigious: The claim that "πρωτότοκος" (prototokos, "firstborn") necessarily implies that Christ is part of creation conflates the term's use as denoting rank or preeminence with its use as a literal birth order.

Myself:it really does not matter whether rank or temporal order the protokos is without exception always part of the group of which he is prototokos there is not one single exception in all of scripture.

 Litigious: In Colossians 1:15, Paul writes, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." The phrase "πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως" does not use a partitive genitive (indicating membership within the group). Instead, the context clarifies that Christ is preeminent over all creation, not a member of creation. Support from context: Verse 16 immediately explains why Christ is called "firstborn": "For by Him all things were created." If Christ created "all things," He cannot logically be part of the created order. The "all things" includes "things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible," emphasizing Christ’s role as Creator, not created

 Myself:Thayers begs to differ prototokos at colossians ch.1:15 is a partitive genitive according to thayers please check for yourself,but it would be worse if it were a possessive genitive because that would definitely make him the offspring of the creation and make his creative status more rather than less certain

And again the propositions "en" and "dia" are NEVER used of JEHOVAH NEVER regarding his role in the creation,those propositions prove that he us not JEHOVAH But JEHOVAH'S Instrument.

Litigious:You cite Thayer's explanation of "πρωτότοκος" as partitive in certain contexts, such as "firstborn of the flock" (Genesis 4:4) or "firstborn of your sons" (Exodus 22:29). However, these examples involve biological or literal relationships. In Colossians 1:15, Paul is using "firstborn" metaphorically to signify rank and authority, consistent with its use in Psalm 89:27: "And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth." Here, "firstborn" signifies preeminence, not literal birth.

Myself:It does not Matter no example is available in scripture where the prototokos whether use in the sense of the first or in the sense of the foremost is of a kind other than the one possessing him or his implied siblings

Litigious:The argument that Christ’s title as "monogenes" (only-begotten) suggests He is part of creation misunderstands the theological use of the term: In Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is called Abraham’s "only-begotten" (monogenes), even though Abraham had another son, Ishmael. The term "monogenes" here emphasizes Isaac’s unique role as the son of promise, not that he is the only son in a literal sense. Similarly, Christ’s designation as "monogenes" in John 1:14 and 1:18 highlights His unique relationship to the Father as the eternal Word, not that He was created. The temporal begetting in Acts 13:33, where the resurrection of Christ is referenced with Psalm 2:7 ("You are my Son; today I have begotten you"), pertains to Christ’s glorification, not His ontological origin. This event is distinct from His eternal generation as the Son of God.

Myself : birth language when used of JEHOVAH Refers to creation,Psalm ch.90:2 for example, the resurrection is a creative act that is why the resurrected are called children of God.

Luke ch.20:36NASB"for they cannot even die anymore, for they are like angels, and are sons of God, being [u]sons of the resurrection. "

Isaac was literally abraham's Son but he was his only Son through the free woman he is the only son he begot in that matter, so the way he was begot was unique not the fact that he begot.

So to Christ the way he was created was unique not the fact that like EVERY Other son he of JEHOVAH He was created.

Christ himself admitted that JEHOVAH Caused him to live.

John ch.6:57NASB"Just as the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, the one who eats Me, he also will live because of Me"

Litigious:The argument that Jehovah creates through preceding creations is flawed when applied to Christ: In Genesis 6:7, Jehovah speaks of "creating" humans and animals. While these beings emerged through natural processes after their kinds, Jehovah is still credited as Creator because He initiated these processes. However, this analogy fails to account for Christ’s unique role as Creator. Colossians 1:16 states that "all things were created through Him and for Him." This does not suggest that Christ was a secondary agent but rather emphasizes His direct involvement as Creator, as also affirmed in John 1:3: "All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made."

I never ever asserted that Christ was created through a prior creation in fact I've always stated the reverse that he us the only creation that was not created through a prior creation, again the fact that creation is accomplished "dia" or "en" him proves conclusively that he us not JEHOVAH But JEHOVAH'S Instrument these propositions are never ever used of JEHOVAH'S Role in creation not even one time. The reason why JEHOVAH Can take full credit for what he accomplishes dia his first creation is the same as why he can take full credit for what he accomplishes through any other creation. All the power sustaining that first creation and being transmitted through that first creation is from him.

Among the examples of dia being used to denote instrumentality by thayers lexicon we have John ch.1:3 ,1Corinthians ch.8:6,Hebrews ch.1:2,colossians ch.1:16

https://biblehub.com/thayers/1223.htm