Litigous:You emphasize repentance as a prerequisite for mercy and grace, citing Matthew 4:17. This is a valid point but does not negate the Catholic Church’s emphasis on repentance and the transformative power of grace. The Catholic Church continually calls its members to repentance through the sacraments, particularly Confession (Reconciliation). Jesus’ call to “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17) is echoed in the Church’s liturgy, teaching, and pastoral care. The Church teaches that God’s mercy and justice are not in opposition. While repentance is necessary, mercy is always available to those who seek it sincerely. The parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) illustrates that God welcomes sinners who return to Him, even after grievous offenses. While the Church practices discipline, it avoids the harshness of shunning or permanent ostracism, which risks violating Christ’s command to forgive “seventy times seven” (Matthew 18:22). Even excommunicated individuals are always invited to repent and return to full communion with the Church.
Myself: same here you repent you return to full fellowship you don't repent you endure the rebuke of JEHOVAH and his son,the person who has repented and taken the vow is not in the same position as the person who has never taken the vow,
Ecclesiastes ch.5:5,6NIV"It is better not to make a vow than to make one and not fulfill it. 6Do not let your mouth lead you into sin. And do not protest to the temple messenger, “My vow was a mistake.” Why should God be angry at what you say and destroy the work of your hands? "
Luke ch.12:47NKJV"“And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished."
2Peter ch.2:20,21NIV"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. "
The truly wise man will recieve the rebuke of JEHOVAH and his priest with the proper spirit.
Revelation ch.3:19NIV"Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent."
Psalm ch.141:5NLT"Let the godly strike me! It will be a kindness! If they correct me, it is soothing medicine. Don’t let me refuse it. But I pray constantly against the wicked and their deeds."
Litigious:You imply that the Catholic Church “tolerates” sin while Jehovah’s Witnesses enforce stricter standards. However, several aspects of JW theology and practice merit critique. Jehovah’s Witnesses practice disfellowshipping, which often results in total isolation of individuals, even from family members. This goes beyond biblical correction (Matthew 18:15-17) and violates the command to honor one’s parents (Exodus 20:12). Catholic discipline, in contrast, seeks repentance and restoration, not permanent exclusion. Jehovah’s Witnesses deny core Christian doctrines, such as the deity of Christ. These denials contradict Scripture (e.g., John 1:1, Matthew 28:19) and the teachings of the early Church, as evidenced by the Nicene Creed. The Watchtower Society’s claim to be the true faith is undermined by its lack of historical continuity with the apostolic Church. In contrast, the Catholic Church traces its origins directly to Christ and the Apostles (Matthew 16:18, Acts 2:42).
The one flesh bond between spouses and their minor children is not affected by the sanction required by the Bible. This sanction is quite clear : 1corithians ch.5:5ASV"to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus"
1Corinthians ch.5:12,13NIV"For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves."
Note a distinction is made with those who are outside never having taken the vow of dedication and those who have dedicated themselves, the purpose of the sanction is to deter the frivolous taking of the vow it can't do that if it is a bluff. No it must be clear that JEHOVAH Means business.
Well you are arguing in a circle as usual the "our beliefs are true because we say they are" ,who cares what logic and the inspired scriptures have to say. Our Lord and his apostles rejected the argument from antiquity 2000 years ago,I don't know why you insists on trying to recycle it?
Litigious:You accuse me of failing to “remove the plank from your own eye” (Matthew 7:5). However, this accusation applies equally to the Jehovah’s Witness organization, which has faced its own scandals and controversies, including child abuse cases and doctrinal changes as well. Allegations of mishandling child abuse cases have plagued the Watchtower Society. These failures reveal that no organization, including Jehovah’s Witnesses, is immune to human sinfulness. The Watchtower Society has repeatedly altered its teachings, raising questions about its claim to be God’s sole channel of truth. For example, its shifting interpretation of the “generation” mentioned in Matthew 24:34 has led to confusion and disillusionment among its members. The Catholic Church acknowledges its human failings while remaining steadfast in its divine mission. As St. Paul wrote, “We have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us” (2 Corinthians 4:7).
Myself :the plank in your eye is preventing you from seeing that the secret sins which no leadership can prevent, cannot be compared to tolerance for public corruption, and worse yet mass murder of coreligionists over political and ethnic differences and the scheming of state sponsored repression of religious minorities, and again I am not singling out the Catholic here I will even concede that it has not all things considered been the worst offender ALL of the churches of Christendom bear community guilt in these regards. Your claim that the global peace we enjoy not even retaliating against the violent persecution of politicised religions,and our uncompromising stand for the bible's morals are the fruit of a tree planted by Satan, while your mass fratricide over political and ethnic differences and your constant compromising over the bible's moral standards are the fruit of a tree planted by the God and Father of Jesus is irrational.
The first century disciples also had wrong expectations see Luke ch.24:21 as I pointed out some of christendom's leading lights Martin Luther,tertullian also had false expectations, 1corinthians ch.13:9NIV"Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture!"
Where the interpreting of prophecy us concerned the scriptures indicate that an incomplete understanding is the default , so we are not stumbled by the default,the foundation of our faith is the identity of the one true God JEHOVAH,the identity of his only High priest Jesus Christ, the mechanism of the ransom, conditional immortality, the peace that only JEHOVAH'S spirit can give and which Satan never can,the restoration of human perfection to our race, the total reassertion of JEHOVAH'S Sovereignty over all the earth, this foundation has remained steadfast from the outset,the changes you like to make much of are not fundamental ,they are window dressing by comparison
John ch.13:35NKJV"By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”"
The kind of love that will move us to choose death rather than obey any command from any prince yo slay our brothers.
Litigious:In conclusion, the Catholic Church does not deny the need for repentance or discipline but balances these with mercy, grace, and a commitment to the truth of the Gospel. The sins of individuals, whether Catholic or Jehovah’s Witness, do not invalidate the truth of Christ’s message.
Myself:the truth of christ message was never the issue the person who has dedicated himself to the holy service of JEHOVAH on the basis of christ ransom is not on the same plain as the person who has no claims of any such dedication,and that needs to be made plain to anyone contemplating such a dedication. Those who turn their back on their vow publicly or whose secret defections become public must be expelled if they refuse to repent. Upon repentance full fellowship can be restored,but it must be clear to all who are contemplating a vow of dedication that the vow is not to be taken frivolously. Any failure to implement JEHOVAH'S Clear instructions in this regard will bring community guilt on the Church.see 1Corinthians ch.5:11-13
Litigious:The Church remains the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15), offering God’s grace to all who seek it. Your interlocutor’s arguments misunderstand the nature of the Church, the process of sanctification, and the balance between justice and mercy that defines authentic Christianity.
Myself:JEHOVAH'S Rebuke of those who are hardened in rebellion against his righteous law is an example of his love for his loyalists,he separates possible contaminants to ensure that his true church remains in a sanctified state,
John ch.15:2NIV"He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful."
1Corinthians ch.5:6,7NIV"Your boasting about this is terrible. Don’t you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old “yeast” by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.g "
If JEHOVAH'S Rebuke is received with the right spirit it can prove to be healing to the spiritually sick.
Psalm ch.141:5NLT"Let the godly strike me!
It will be a kindness!
If they correct me, it is soothing medicine.
Don’t let me refuse it.
But I pray constantly
against the wicked and their deeds."
2Chronicles ch.33:10-13ASV"And JEHOVAH spake to Manasseh, and to his people; but they gave no heed. 11Wherefore JEHOVAH brought upon them the captains of the host of the king of Assyria, who took Manasseh in chains, and bound him with fetters, and carried him to Babylon. 12And when he was in distress, he besought JEHOVAH his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers. 13And he prayed unto him; and he was entreated of him, and heard his supplication, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that JEHOVAH he was God"
Your rejection of historical continuity in Christianity shows a misunderstanding of Christ’s promise in Matthew 16:18 that “the gates of hell shall not prevail” against His Church. You dismiss historical Christianity as corrupted and claim Jehovah’s Witnesses are the true faith, yet your movement did not exist until the 19th century. The early Church Fathers, who lived far closer to the apostles, taught doctrines that Jehovah’s Witnesses reject, including the deity of Christ and the Trinitarian nature of God (cf. Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athanasius). The Watchtower Society’s ever-changing doctrines undermine its claim to divine authority. Jesus did not establish an organization that would later need to be "restored"—He founded a Church that has endured since the time of the apostles.
ReplyDeleteYour attempt to dismiss the documented changes in Jehovah’s Witness doctrine as “window dressing” ignores the serious theological inconsistencies within your organization. Doctrinal shifts such as the multiple post-hoc re-interpretations of the “generation” in Matthew 24:34 or failed prophetic predictions, such as the 1914 and 1975 end-times claims, show that your organization cannot claim to be God’s unerring voice. Contrast this with Catholic doctrine, which, despite human failings, has preserved the same core teachings on the Trinity, the sacraments, and salvation since the time of Christ.
You argue that “all of Christendom” is guilty of political and religious violence, yet you fail to distinguish between the actions of individuals and the teachings of the Church. The Catholic Church has always condemned unjust violence, as seen in papal encyclicals like Pacem in Terris (1963) and Evangelium Vitae (1995). While historical conflicts occurred, they were often driven by political, not theological, motivations. More importantly, Christ’s teachings remain unchanged. The Church does not justify the past sins of its members but rather seeks repentance and reform, unlike the Watchtower Society, which rewrites its history to cover past errors.
Your appeal to John 13:35, claiming that Jehovah’s Witnesses show true Christian love by refusing to participate in military service, is misleading. The Catholic Church upholds just war principles, as seen in Augustine and Aquinas, which permit self-defense and the protection of the innocent. The rejection of military service does not automatically equate to moral superiority. Jehovah’s Witnesses claim to be neutral, yet the organization has engaged in questionable legal and political maneuvers, such as its association with the United Nations as an NGO while publicly condemning political involvement.
You claim that Jehovah disciplines those in rebellion, but you fail to recognize that authority within the Church is meant to build up, not tear down. The Catholic Church does not reject discipline but implements it with mercy. Paul commands the Church to discipline the immoral brother in 1 Corinthians 5, yet in 2 Corinthians 2:6-8, he urges the Church to forgive and restore the sinner, demonstrating that discipline must lead to reconciliation, not indefinite exclusion.
In conclusion, your defense of Jehovah’s Witness practices relies on selective Scripture interpretation, theological inconsistencies, and a rejection of historical Christianity. Catholic doctrine maintains the balance between justice and mercy, acknowledging the necessity of repentance while preserving the dignity of individuals. Unlike Jehovah’s Witnesses’ rigid disciplinary system, which often results in broken families and emotional harm, the Catholic Church follows the biblical model of correction ordered toward restoration. Your rejection of historical Christianity and your organization's doctrinal instability undermine your claim to be the true faith. The Catholic Church, built upon the foundation of Christ and the apostles, remains the pillar and foundation of truth, offering God’s grace to all who seek it.
https://aservantofjehovah.blogspot.com/2025/02/against-litigious-xxv_5.html
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