Nincs:The assertion that "there is no such thing" (?!) as a non-temporal emergence is nothing more than proof by assertion, and a misunderstanding of metaphysical concepts. In Christian theology, specifically Nicene Christology, the Son's begetting by the Father is understood as an eternal generation, not a temporal event. This means it is a logical, not temporal, subalternation and relationship, affirming the co-eternity of the Son with the Father. "Whatever the Son is or has, He has from the Father, and is the principle from a principle." (Council of Florence) Orthodox Christology affirms the eternal, non-temporal begetting of the Son.
Me:if the Son has always existed then logically he never emerged whether his continued existence is dependent on another is a separate issue although such depedendence would render him inferior to the one God of scripture who is totally self sustaining and is in no ones debt.
Roman's ch.11:34,35,NKJV"“For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”"
It is a rhetorical question JEHOVAH is in no ones debt especially for his continued existence.
Nincs:Origen explains this as an eternal act within the Godhead:
"For it is the Trinity alone which exceeds every sense in which not only temporal but even eternal may be understood."
"Now this expression which we employ — that there never was a time when He did not exist — is to be understood with an allowance. For these very words when or never have a meaning that relates to time, whereas the statements made regarding Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are to be understood as transcending all time, all ages, and all eternity. For it is the Trinity alone which exceeds the comprehension not only of temporal but even of eternal intelligence; while other things which are not included in it are to be measured by times and ages. "
Any Creed that can be accepted without logic can certainly be rejected on account of logic indeed the ones rejecting for logic sake have a better cause for rejecting,than those who accept despite a plain conflict with logic.
Nincs:This affirms that the Logos (Word) existed eternally with the Father, beyond the confines of time.1 John 1:1 uses "apo archē" (from the beginning) to indicate the Logos’ existence before creation, aligning with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word." This indicates a pre-temporal existence, not a temporal beginning. The claim that "apo archē" refers to a temporal beginning is refuted by the context of John 1:1-3, which clearly states that the Logos was with God and was God, emphasizing the eternal nature of the Word.
Me:Apo arkhe ALWAYS Means from the beginning never from eternity which would definitionally mean without beginning.
The fact that he is apo arkhe excludes his being from eternity, notice that JEHOVAH is NEVER spoken of as being "apo arkhe" because it would be absurd.
Nincs:The phrase "archē tēs ktiseōs" in Revelation 3:14 is often mistranslated in the NWT as "the beginning of the creation BY God." The correct translation, "the 'archē' of the creation OF God," indicates Christ as the source or origin of creation, not the first created being. The NWT's use of "by" instead of "of" is misleading. The Greek text does not support "hupo" (by), but rather "archē" denotes the origin or source, aligning with John 1:3 where all things were made through Him. It is also no coincidence that no one referred to Rev. 3:14 in the 4th century Arian debates, why? Because a native Greek speaker would never think of such nonsense, since all educated Greeks knew that the archē is the first principle from which creation flows, not the first piece of created things. Read this: https://justpaste.it/bv4ep
Me: I never quoted from the NWT why is it that you people are ALWAYS the First to bring up the NWT, the creation OF JEHOVAH Would logically have JEHOVAH as its source
Thus the context indicates the Jesus is starting point of JEHOVAH's Creation JEHOVAH himself being the source of that creation including Jesus which would match
Proverbs ch.8:24,25 which shows his expressed wisdom being brought forth/begotten all the information and energy in the creation being from JEHOVAH This is a fitting analogy
Your claim that a prophet cannot be equal to God and can be replaced overlooks the unique nature of Christ. Jesus is not just a prophet but the incarnate Word of God (John 1:14), fully divine and human.
Christ is actually superhuman having permanently sacrificed his human perfection for our sakes he has now been rewarded with superhuman perfection by his God and Father and still he acknowledges his God and Father as His superior
Revelation ch.3:12NKJV"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of MY GOD, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of MY GOD and the name of the city of MY GOD, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from MY GOD. And I will write on him My new name."
Nincs:Hebrews 1:3 states, "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being," affirming the full deity of Christ. Unlike prophets, Jesus shares the same nature as the Father, making Him indispensable and uniquely qualified as the Redeemer.
Me: more trinitarian cope a representation us never equal to the thing it represents,that is why if someone destroys your photograph they will not be charged with murder the photo is but a representation of you, it is not the reality of you, the reality is always of superior worth, note too that he is a representation of THE God (JEHOVAH) see Hebrews ch.1:1 not merely the Father,though that would be O.K because only the father is the unqualified "ho theos" in the N.T
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