The ninth installment of my responses to mr.nevem
"The "spiritual body" ("sōma pneumatikos", 1 Cor 15:44) is not the opposite of the real human body, but is contrasted with the corruptible, mortal, sinful human body, as we have seen, Jesus' "spiritual body"had flesh and bones Luke 24:39
Jesus mortal body had no sin so the contrast could have nothing to do with sin if his body had sin it could not serve as a sin offering the contrast is not between what is sinful and what is sinless but what is mortal and what is immortal
Luke ch.24:36-39NIV"While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have
Spirit creatures are invisible so spirit is being used here in the sense of a phantasm that such an invisible spirit creature perhaps a demon might conjure, thus Jesus allowed them to touch his incarnated superhuman form to prove that he was not such a conjuring. So this passage in no way proves your contention the fact that Jesus could not take his sinless flesh and blood into heaven proves that sin is not the issue only the superhuman can enter spirit realm.
There are also legal considerations all sin offerings must be completely consumed for instance whatever was left of the Passover had to be burned
Exodus ch.12:9:10NIV"Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. "
Thus to conform to this pattern Jesus cannot legally retrieve his human body as that would cancel the atonement.
The wages of sin is eternal death not temporary disembodiment for his atonement to have truly substitutionary value the loss of his human perfection to death must be permanent
One more thing you are not scoring any points with me with your half-truths and distortions against the brothers. You see contrary to your lies I am fully aware of our past I am also aware of the bloodstained and corrupted past and present of your church and not for all the money in the world would I exchange pasts with that cabal of murdering thugs called the Catholic church.
Revelation ch.18:24KJV"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
First, the claim that Jesus' mortal body being sinless negates the contrast between the corruptible and incorruptible is a misunderstanding of Paul's theology in 1 Corinthians 15. Paul emphasizes that the resurrection body is imperishable, glorious, and immortal, not subject to decay or death, unlike our earthly bodies, which are mortal and corruptible (1 Corinthians 15:42-44). The term "spiritual body" does not mean immaterial or non-physical; rather, it refers to a body fully transformed by the Holy Spirit, suitable for eternal life. This is consistent with the account in Luke 24:39, where Jesus affirms the physical reality of his resurrected body, saying, "Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." If Jesus' body were merely a materialization or a conjured form, it would contradict the purpose of his resurrection as the firstfruits of the new creation (1 Corinthians 15:20-23).
ReplyDeleteThe attempt to redefine "spirit" in Luke 24:39 as referring to a phantasm or apparition undermines the plain meaning of the text. The disciples initially thought they saw a ghost because they were unprepared for the reality of a bodily resurrection, a concept that defied their expectations. Jesus corrected this misunderstanding by inviting them to touch his physical body and showing his wounds, proving he was not a ghost or spirit being. This directly counters the notion that Jesus' resurrected body was immaterial or superhuman in a way that abandoned his human nature. The continuity between his pre-crucifixion and post-resurrection body is crucial to Christian theology, affirming that the resurrection is about the redemption and glorification of creation, not its abandonment.
The argument that Jesus' body had to be "consumed" to satisfy legal requirements for atonement is an unfounded extrapolation. The sacrificial patterns in the Old Testament, such as the Passover lamb, are types and shadows that find their fulfillment in Christ's ultimate sacrifice (Hebrews 10:1-10). These shadows point to the once-for-all offering of Christ on the cross, not to a literal consumption of his physical body. The notion that Jesus' resurrection would "cancel the atonement" misunderstands the nature of his sacrifice. His death paid the penalty for sin, and his resurrection was the vindication of his victory over sin and death (Romans 4:25). The atonement is not nullified by his resurrection but is completed and affirmed through it.
The claim that "the wages of sin is eternal death" (Romans 6:23) requires clarification. While eternal death is the ultimate consequence of sin for unrepentant humanity, Christ's death was not eternal annihilation but a substitutionary act. His physical death was sufficient to pay the penalty for sin because of his divine nature, which gives infinite value to his sacrifice. His resurrection does not negate his death; rather, it demonstrates that he has conquered death and secured eternal life for those who believe in him (1 Corinthians 15:54-57).
Regarding the historical accusations against the Catholic Church, they are irrelevant to the theological discussion of Jesus' resurrection. Ad hominem attacks or references to past actions of individuals or institutions do not address the validity of Catholic doctrine. The Church, as the body of Christ, is composed of sinners redeemed by grace, and its teaching authority rests not on the moral perfection of its members but on the promise of Christ to guide it into all truth (John 16:13).
Finally, the invocation of Revelation 18:24 as a condemnation of the Catholic Church is a misinterpretation of the text. Revelation 18:24 speaks of "Babylon the Great," a symbolic representation of worldly systems opposed to God, not a specific denomination or church. Such interpretations often reflect anti-Catholic biases rather than sound exegesis.