Litigious:The assertion that qanah in Proverbs 8:22 must mean "created" misunderstands the broader semantic range of the Hebrew term. While qanah can mean "create," it also frequently means "possess" or "acquire," particularly in contexts emphasizing ownership or divine action. The context of Proverbs 8:22 speaks of Wisdom being with God "from the beginning" (reshit), which aligns better with "possess" or "acquire" in a way that emphasizes Wisdom's eternal and integral relationship with God. This interpretation is consistent with the broader biblical portrayal of divine Wisdom as eternal (e.g., Job 28:20-28) and inseparable from God.
Myself:No the Bible never uses beginning to mean eternity thus clearly we are speaking of a creation JEHOVAH'S Wisdom was not acquired
Litigious:The LXX rendering of qanah as ektise ("created") in Proverbs 8:22 does not necessarily imply a temporal act of creation in the sense of bringing something into existence from nothing. The term ektise in Hellenistic Greek can also mean "established" or "ordained," reflecting the ordering of divine Wisdom in God's plan. This reflects an interpretive choice of the translators but does not overturn the Hebrew understanding of Wisdom as an eternal attribute of God. Furthermore, the LXX was influenced by Jewish philosophical and theological frameworks, such as those of Philo, which often depicted Wisdom in personified and functional terms, not as a separate created entity.
Myself: that is why Wisdom here must be an expression of wisdom and not eternal attribute of JEHOVAH. Creation always happens in time in the Bible we reject greco-roman speculation. The ancient Hebrews would likewise have rejected the idea of a multipersonal God.
Litigious:Your citation of various translations that use "created" in Proverbs 8:22 reflects interpretive decisions, not necessarily a definitive rendering of the Hebrew text. Many of these translations prioritize readability over precise theological nuance. The choice of "created" in some Catholic translations reflects an attempt to reconcile the text with the broader narrative of God’s creative work, not an actual endorsement of the idea that Wisdom is a created being. Even within these translations, the eternal and divine nature of Wisdom as an attribute of God remains central.:
Creation is a legitimate rendering in the BIBLE all creation happens within time we and the ancient Hebrews reject creation outside of time.JEHOVAH'S quality of Wisdom is uncreated the idea of an expression of wisdom makes much more sense .
Litigious:The reference to reshit ("beginning") does not necessarily imply a temporal starting point. In Proverbs 8:22, reshit is better understood as indicating primacy or preeminence rather than a chronological beginning. This is supported by the use of reshit in other contexts, such as Genesis 1:1, where it refers to the foundational moment of creation, not to a created entity itself. Similarly, the use of archē in the Greek translation reinforces the idea of preeminence and priorinot a point of creation.
Myself:there is NO Scriptural precedent at all for a creation outside of time all creations are within time. All beginnings refer to time.
Sola scriptura. Genesis proves my point the beginning of his way would not refer to an abstraction. Abstract Wisdom is not the beginning of anything.expressed Wisdom is the beginning of JEHOVAH'S Way.
Ps. Among instances where thayer's lexicon considers dia to denote instrumentality by an authority
Winer's Grammar, 379 (355))) ἐγένετο or ἐκτίσθη: John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6 (where he is expressly distinguished from the first cause: ἐξ αὐτοῦ (Winer's Grammar, 419 (391))); Colossians 1:16 (Winer's Grammar, the passage cited), cf. Hebrews 1:2 (Philo de cherub. § 35). The instrumental cause and the principal are distinguished in 1"
tropically Christ is called πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως (partitive genitive (see below), as in τά πρωτότοκα τῶν προβάτων, Genesis 4:4; τῶν βοῶν, Deuteronomy 12:17; τῶν υἱῶν σου, Exodus 22:29), who came into being through God prior to the entire universe of created things
Brown Driver Briggs on qanah at Proverbs ch.8:22
of God as originating, creating, קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).
First, the Hebrew term qanah in Proverbs 8:22 indeed has a semantic range that includes "create," "possess," and "acquire," among other meanings. The choice of translation depends on the context. The broader context of Proverbs 8:22-31 depicts Wisdom as preexisting creation and being present with God during the act of creation. This supports the interpretation of qanah as "possess" or "acquire" in a manner that emphasizes Wisdom's eternal and integral relationship with God. While it is true that some translations render qanah as "created," this reflects interpretive decisions influenced by theological presuppositions rather than a definitive linguistic determination.
ReplyDeleteSecond, your assertion that the Bible never uses "beginning" to mean eternity is not accurate. The term reshit in Hebrew, like archē in Greek, can denote primacy or preeminence rather than a strict chronological starting point. In Genesis 1:1, for example, "beginning" refers to the foundational moment of creation, not to a specific temporal starting point for God Himself. Similarly, in Proverbs 8:22, the "beginning of His way" reflects the foundational or principal role of Wisdom in God’s creative activity, not a temporal origin of Wisdom as a created entity.
Third, your rejection of the eternal nature of divine Wisdom based on the assumption that all creation happens within time fails to account for the personification of Wisdom in the biblical text. Proverbs 8 portrays Wisdom as not merely an abstract concept or an "expression" of God’s wisdom but as an eternal attribute of God, active and present from the very inception of creation. This understanding is consistent with other biblical texts that describe Wisdom as divine and eternal, such as Job 28:20-28 and Sirach 24:9. Your assertion that Wisdom cannot be eternal reflects a misunderstanding of the literary and theological nature of the text.
Fourth, the Septuagint (LXX) translation of qanah as ektise ("created") in Proverbs 8:22 does not necessarily imply that Wisdom was a created being in the temporal sense. In Hellenistic Greek, ektise can also mean "established" or "ordained," reflecting the foundational role of Wisdom in God's plan rather than a temporal act of creation. The LXX translators often made interpretive choices influenced by Jewish theological and philosophical thought, which personified Wisdom as an eternal and integral aspect of God’s nature.
Lastly, your appeal to sola scriptura and rejection of Greco-Roman philosophical influence overlooks the fact that the Bible itself was written in specific historical and cultural contexts that inevitably shaped its language and concepts. While it is true that ancient Hebrews did not explicitly articulate a doctrine of a multi-personal God, the New Testament's revelation of the Trinity builds on and fulfills the Old Testament's depiction of God's nature, including personified Wisdom.
https://aservantofjehovah.blogspot.com/2025/01/dia-when-used-of-logos-according-to.html
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