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Thursday, 27 July 2023

Against nincsnevem XVI

 The sixteenth of my responses to Mr.nevem




Since you don't answer directly, I will do it for you: the term "spiritual body" ("sōma pneumatikos") is NOT used in the Bible for angels, since they do not have a "spiritual body",

First this is an argument from silence .  One can't logical deduce anything from silence

1Corinthians ch.15:40ESV"For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another."

There are (present tense Heavenly bodies) so this is not speaking of what is to come but

Of what is now there are superhuman beings with bodies suited to a superphysical way of life e.g angels 

1 John 3:2 also does not say anything about the resurrected ones becoming similar to the spirits in nature, 

So what does it say

1John ch.3:2ESV"Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is."

We shall see him as he is and be like him

Exodus ch.33:20ESV"But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” "

 It is impossible for humans to see JEHOVAH as he is and live

We understand all stated  facts about JEHOVAH  be permanent and unchangeable

By way of a second witnesses

1Timothy ch.6:16ESV"who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has EVER seen or CAN see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."

This is why the human i.e flesh and blood CANNOT Inherit the superhuman

Flesh and blood refers to the human which is mortal by definition

Spirit refers to the superhuman only the superhuman can withstand that light

Nincsnevem"we do know what we will look like in the resurrection" - We know that it will truly be OUR OWN body (Philippians 3:21, 1 Corinthians 15:38), not something transformed into an angel.

If we were transformed into angels we would know our own bodies the fact of the matter is that from birth we have changed bodies annually with no consciousness of having changed bodies so this is yet another non-argument the body that those in line for a resurrection in the superphysical realm will receive is adapted for life in that realm

And of course being a necessary element of ourselves we will recognise it as a necessary part of ourselves.

Phillipians ch.3:21NIV"who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body."

Any body the person is raised up in would be his body we've had dozens of bodies over the course of our life and yet we think of them all as our one body there is no need to incorporate any of the substance from our corpse for the resurrected body to be OUR body

2Corinthians ch .5:1NIV"1For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. "

The old is destroyed to make way for the new

"where in SCRIPTURE does it say the angels don't have bodies" - Among others where Jesus says that the spirits do not have "bones and flesh" (Luke 24:39), but he does, hence He is not a spirit. Also in the places cited above.

More circular logic presume that all bodies are made of flesh and bones or that spirit here means spirit creature not an apparition and use your presuppositions as evidence

There are superphysical bodies.  Physical bodies are not the only kinds of bodies referred to in scripture 

1Corinthians ch.15:40NIV"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. "

Each with its own glory Mr.Nevem 

Nincsnevem:Why were the wounds of his crucifixion visible on Jesus?


As I have explained spirit creatures are able to materialise and dematerialise physical forms through which the communicate with humans

Genesis 6:4NIV"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

Here are spirit beings materialising bodies capable of copulating with human females and producing offspring.

Reproducing some bodily scars would be child's play for such a being when I called spirit beings superhuman that is what I meant

When Jesus was appearing and disappearing he was always fully clothe sandals and all obviously he materialised the clothes as well



1 comment:

  1. Nincs nevem:Chrysostom refers the phrase to the resurrection bodies. This is unquestionably the meaning of ἐπουράνιος in 1 Corinthians 15:48: but here it would seem to be in more strict opposition to ἐπίγειος, that which exists on the earth, since the Apostle refers to the sun, moon, and stars as 'heavenly bodies' in the next verse..



    1corinthians ch.15:48ESV"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. "

    Every single creation has a heavenly source the first Adam received his body directly from JEHOVAH not through a woman so it seems he has a greater claim to having a body from heaven if the phrase is Just about the source of the body

    1Corinthians 15:45ESV"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

    Is extremely important to understanding the issue that you pay close care both to what the passage says and doesn't say

    It does not say that the first man received a soul but that he BECAME a soul think of Martha going to law school and becoming a lawyer Martha doesn't have a lawyer Martha has become a lawyer

    Same with the second Adam he did not receive a spirit he BECAME a spirit obviously Just as the First Adam was not a living soul prior to becoming one Second Adam was not a spirit prior to becoming one and equally important his becoming a spirit did not preclude his having a body so a person being/becoming a spirit does not preclude their having a superphysical body

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