Against ninsnevem ad pluribus XVI

 

Nincs:If it were not stated in the NT that Christ really died, and it were not in it that the Son was "the firstborn from/among the dead" (with 'ek'), then it would certainly be reasonable to argue that he never died and "the the firstborn OF the dead" (without 'ek') would not prove the opposite. The term "firstborn" (prototokos) in contexts such as "firstborn from the dead" implies both participation and preeminence. Christ was part of the dead and the first to be raised, underscoring His supremacy. But the notion that Christ would be created, or that He would be a creature, or that He would be connected to creation with "ek" is *nowhere* in the NT.

Me:more argument by assertion their is no ex at revelation ch.1:5,it's almost as if JEHOVAH Looked ahead and anticipated trintarian trickery here. Your argument by unfounded assertion proves nothing this time either .there is no need for any ex as plainly demonstrated by all the other uses of prototokos in scripture with or without the "ex" the prototokos is part of the implicit or explicit set . You proved utterly unable to put up re:an example from scripture yet you won't shut up you're just wrong here.

 In the Scripture the use of birth language re:JEHOVAH Is a reference to his creative activity 

   Hebrews ch.5:5So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him:

“You are My Son,

TODAY I have begotten You.”"

 The resurrection is a recreation of the one who has returned to his pre-creation state hence it us called begetting so Christ was begotten in time.

JEHOVAH of course had no recreation state hence cannot die and hence cannot be raised from the dead.

  Both of the Logos begettings were in time and were the result of his God's creative activity.

John ch.1:18LSB"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him."

The Logos is not merely a created person but a created God.

Note that the angels are called elohim

at psalms 8:5

Nincs:Your example about David also does not refute my position, according to which "firstborn of X" is not an inherently partitive structure, but whether the classification has taken place or whether the given concept conceptually requires membership is what decides it. It is not possible to be a pre-eminent king without being a king, but it is indeed possible to be a pre-eminent, distinguished heir being in a supreme position in relation to the whole creation, without being a creature.

Yes it is always necessary for the heir to be part of the family always your argument by unfounded assertion never works nincs never, we are supported by the TOTALITY of scriptural precedent and you continue to FAIL to demonstrate otherwise all you have to your back is wishful thinking.