meditations of aservantofJEHOVAH
the bible,truth,God's kingdom,Jehovah God,New World,Jehovah's Witnesses,God's church,Christianity,apologetics,spirituality.
Friday, 17 January 2025
Thursday, 16 January 2025
Brown Driver Briggs on qanah at Proverbs ch.8:22
of God as originating, creating, קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).
Thayer's on prototokos at colossians ch.1:15.
tropically Christ is called πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως (partitive genitive (see below), as in τά πρωτότοκα τῶν προβάτων, Genesis 4:4; τῶν βοῶν, Deuteronomy 12:17; τῶν υἱῶν σου, Exodus 22:29), who came into being through God prior to the entire universe of created things
Dia when used of the Logos according to Thayer's
Among instances where thayer's lexicon considers dia to denote instrumentality by an authority
Winer's Grammar, 379 (355))) ἐγένετο or ἐκτίσθη: John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6 (where he is expressly distinguished from the first cause: ἐξ αὐτοῦ (Winer's Grammar, 419 (391))); Colossians 1:16 (Winer's Grammar, the passage cited), cf. Hebrews 1:2 (Philo de cherub. § 35). The instrumental cause and the principal are distinguished in 1"
Against litigious XII
Litigious: First, regarding prototokos in Colossians 1:15, your assertion that it "inherently indicates membership in the implicit or explicit set of which one is prototokos" is an oversimplification that ignores the broader semantic range of the term. While prototokos can sometimes refer to birth order, it is often used metaphorically in Scripture to denote preeminence or rank. For instance, in Psalm 89:27, God refers to David as "My firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth." David was not the first king in history, nor even the first in his family, yet he is called prototokos to signify his supreme status.
You really need to stop being such a robot nothing you mentioned is in any way relevant to my argument it's like copying and pasting or letting A I write your contributions,you can't persuade anyone with that kind of approach there is simply no place including your examples where the prototokos is outside the implied group whether he is the first or foremost is of no co sequence to my argument the more you ignore my actual argument the less persuasive you sound.
Litigious:Similarly, Colossians 1:15 uses prototokos to highlight Christ’s supremacy over all creation, not to place Him within the category of created beings. This interpretation aligns with the immediate context, where verses 16-17 explicitly describe Christ as the Creator of "all things," both visible and invisible. If Christ created "all things," it is logically incoherent to argue that He Himself is part of what He created. Your appeal to the partitive genitive argument fails to address this context adequately. While some uses of prototokos involve a partitive genitive, the genitive in Colossians 1:15 can just as easily be understood as one of relationship or subordination (e.g., "firstborn over all creation," as many translations render it).
Again not one example and the lexicon make it plain that this us definitely a partitive genitive. He is the one "dia" whom JEHOVAH Made all things the words dia and en are NEVER used of JEHOVAH'S Role in the creation he is the source of the power and wisdom in the creation all who JEHOVAH act through are subordinate to him
The surrounding context supports the relational or preeminent sense, particularly because Paul immediately clarifies that all things were created through Christ and for Him, emphasizing His role as the Creator and the one for whom creation exists. Second, your interpretation of dia as indicating mere instrumentality misrepresents the Greek preposition's usage in the New Testament. While dia can signify instrumentality, it often denotes agency, particularly when paired with an active subject like Christ in passages about creation. For instance, John 1:3 states that "all things were made through (dia) Him, and without Him was not anything made that was
Your circular logic proves nothing we know that JEHOVAH is the source 1corinthians ch.8:6 and that His son is the means we have no precedent for JEHOVAH Acting through an equal not even one time to merely assert an exception circular logic. The word all is routinely used in scripture with sensible exceptions. See Genesis 3:20
The text does not imply Christ is merely a tool or intermediary; rather, it ascribes to Him an active, causative role in creation. Furthermore, Hebrews 1:2 reinforces this idea, stating that God "made the universe through (dia) the Son." The consistent use of dia in these contexts underscores Christ's active agency in creation, not a passive, subordinate role. Your claim that there is no biblical precedent for describing creation as occurring dia Jehovah is irrelevant, as the New Testament reveals Christ’s divine agency as fully consistent with His being one with the Father.
More argument by assertion I already told you you need to get a specific quote.
Your assertion that the fact that no one is ever shown to create dia JEHOVAH is irrelevant seems rather circular that would be the only sure way to prove that JEHOVAH is on the same plain as his created son . All whom JEHOVAH Acts through are his subordinates. We are one with christ does that mean we are equal to him
Third, your argument about Hebrews 1:6 and Jesus' exaltation misunderstands the distinction between Christ’s divine nature and His incarnate role. The references to Christ being "made lower than the angels" (Hebrews 2:9) and later exalted reflect His voluntary humility and submission in the incarnation, not a change in His divine essence. Philippians 2:6-11 elucidates this point: Christ, "being in the form of God," did not cling to His equality with God but "emptied Himself" to take on human nature. His exaltation after the resurrection signifies the glorification of His humanity, not a promotion in His divine nature, which is unchangeable and eternal. Your argument conflates Christ's incarnate role with His divine essence, leading to a misunderstanding of the text
I understand that human and superhuman are mutually exclusive terms. God and man are mutually exclusive categories this is why we reject your churches assertions.
Against litigious X
Litigious:The claim that no one in heaven, including Jesus, has a physical form misinterprets 1 Corinthians 15:50. The phrase "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" does not mean that physical bodies are excluded from heaven. Rather, it signifies that corruptible, mortal bodies cannot inherit the imperishable kingdom. As Paul explains in the surrounding verses, believers’ bodies will be transformed into glorified, immortal BODIES (1 Corinthians 15:42-44, 53). This transformation does not entail abandoning physicality but perfecting it, as demonstrated by Christ's resurrected body.
Myself:Again it means what it says your church has no recognized authority here the Bible has all the authority unless you can find some scripture that says otherwise we go with what the verse clearly states no physical forms in heaven, christ is no longer human.
See galatians ch.1:1
Litigious:The argument that Christ’s glorified body negates His physicality misunderstands the nature of glorification. A glorified body is still a body, but it is no longer subject to decay, suffering, or death. Jesus' ability to appear and disappear after His resurrection (e.g., Luke 24:31, John 20:19) reflects the properties of a glorified body, not a denial of its physical reality. These accounts affirm that Christ retained His humanity in a perfected state, consistent with His ongoing role as the risen Lord.
Myself:We reject your church's authority sola scriptura,find a verse that says that don't simply assert anything or we would have no choice but to reject it where are your scriptures. Galatians ch.1:1 luke 24:31 shows him disappearing into thin air that certainly does not seem very human to me. And in broad daylight no one recognized him.clearly something similar Genesis ch.19 was happening.here galatians ch.1:1 makes it plain that he was no longer human.
Litigious:Finally, the claim that Christ is no longer human and that His resurrected appearances prove He became solely a "spirit being" lacks scriptural support. Paul consistently teaches that Jesus’ resurrection affirms both the continuity of His identity and the transformation of His body (Romans 6:9-10, Philippians 3:21). The notion that Jesus "became" a spirit contradicts the clear testimony of Scripture, which emphasizes the physical reality of His resurrection as the firstfruits of the redeemed (1 Corinthians 15:20-23).
Myself His becoming superhuman won't alter his identity any more than his becoming human altered it so your argument makes no sense.
Ps. Among instances where thayer's lexicon considers dia to denote instrumentality by an authority
Winer's Grammar, 379 (355))) ἐγένετο or ἐκτίσθη: John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6 (where he is expressly distinguished from the first cause: ἐξ αὐτοῦ (Winer's Grammar, 419 (391))); Colossians 1:16 (Winer's Grammar, the passage cited), cf. Hebrews 1:2 (Philo de cherub. § 35). The instrumental cause and the principal are distinguished in 1"
tropically Christ is called πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως (partitive genitive (see below), as in τά πρωτότοκα τῶν προβάτων, Genesis 4:4; τῶν βοῶν, Deuteronomy 12:17; τῶν υἱῶν σου, Exodus 22:29), who came into being through God prior to the entire universe of created things
Brown Driver Briggs on qanah at Proverbs ch.8:22
of God as originating, creating, קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).
Against litigious ch.IX
Your argument regarding the term arche in Revelation 3:14 overlooks its semantic range. While arche can mean "beginning" in the sense of the first in a sequence, it also carries the meaning of "source" or "ruler." In the context of Revelation, arche emphasizes Christ's role as the origin and sovereign of creation. This interpretation aligns with Revelation 1:8 and 22:13, where Christ is identified as the "Alpha and Omega," titles that affirm his eternal and uncreated nature. Your claim that arche here implies Christ's creation is inconsistent with the broader context of Revelation and the New Testament.
If you insists on just spamming I going to have to block you I already dealt with this Revelation ch.1:8 has nothing to do with creation and arche is rendered as begining not source here so your argument makes no sense either engage with my arguments in a honest way or get lost.
Litigious:The argument that Christ cannot be Jehovah because Jehovah "is not a man" (Numbers 23:19) misunderstands the doctrine of the Incarnation. Trinitarian theology does not claim that the divine nature changes into human nature. Instead, the Incarnation teaches that the eternal Son took on human nature while remaining fully divine (John 1:14; Philippians 2:6-8). The Son’s humanity does not negate his deity but fulfills the redemptive purpose of God. Malachi 3:6 affirms God's immutability, which is fully consistent with the Incarnation, as it pertains to the divine nature, not the addition of a human nature.
Myself:God and man are mutually exclusive terms and you claim his becoming a man made him dependent when he wasn't before becoming a man so obviously the Incarnation changed him. Your reference to church law does not counter the Bible that is what you need to understand only the Bible can counter the Bible. Find a scripture that says JEHOVAH was only the most high God until the first century and I will look at it,but but the fact that your church simply pulls an idea out of greco-roman speculation is reason to dismiss it out of hand in these parts, so respect your audience.
Your interpretation of John 10:29 and Matthew 24:36 does not refute Christ's deity. John 10:29 emphasizes the Father's greatness in the context of divine protection and unity, not a denial of the Son's equality. In fact, John 10:30 ("I and the Father are one") asserts their unity in essence. Regarding Matthew 24:36, Christ's statement about the Son not knowing the day or hour reflects his voluntary limitation in knowledge during his earthly ministry, consistent with the doctrine of the hypostatic union. This does not imply inferiority but demonstrates the Son's humility in fulfilling his mission.
The unincarnated spirit would not fall under the self-limiting fallacy JEHOVAH does not change no creation can limit JEHOVAH so your argument is unscriptural expression "the Father only" would exclude the unincarnated spirit . He already mentioned men and angels if only the human Son were meant there would be no need to mention him separately he us mentioned after the superhuman angels to imply that even in his superhuman state he would not know. And if he does know anything then he is not JEHOVAH
LITIGIOUS:Finally, your argument that “Jehovah” does not have a God (Revelation 3:12) fails to consider the relational dynamic within the Trinity. As the incarnate Son, Jesus refers to the Father as "my God" to express his role within the economy of salvation. This relational language does not diminish his deity but reflects his mission as the mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5).
Myself JEHOVAH is the most high God therefore the Trinity is nonsense jesus is not JEHOVAH because he is not the most high God. Keep it simple.
Ps.Among instances where thayer's lexicon considers dia to denote instrumentality by an authority
Winer's Grammar, 379 (355))) ἐγένετο or ἐκτίσθη: John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6 (where he is expressly distinguished from the first cause: ἐξ αὐτοῦ (Winer's Grammar, 419 (391))); Colossians 1:16 (Winer's Grammar, the passage cited), cf. Hebrews 1:2 (Philo de cherub. § 35). The instrumental cause and the principal are distinguished in 1"
tropically Christ is called πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως (partitive genitive (see below), as in τά πρωτότοκα τῶν προβάτων, Genesis 4:4; τῶν βοῶν, Deuteronomy 12:17; τῶν υἱῶν σου, Exodus 22:29), who came into being through God prior to the entire universe of created things
Brown Driver Briggs on qanah at Proverbs ch.8:22
of God as originating, creating, קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).
Against litigious VIII
Litigious: Luke 20:36 speaks of the resurrected believers being "equal to angels" and "sons of God" in the sense that they will share certain characteristics with angels, such as immortality and no longer being subject to marriage. However, this comparison does not imply that angels have "bodies". The emphasis is on their new state of existence—imperishable and eternal—not on the possession of a physical or spiritual body. Angels are described throughout Scripture as incorporeal beings who can assume physical forms temporarily for specific purposes (e.g., Genesis 18:1-8, Hebrews 1:14). These temporary appearances do not imply that angels inherently possess bodies, whether physical or spiritual. Their nature, as "ministering spirits" (Hebrews 1:14), is fundamentally distinct from that of human beings.
Myself:actually there isn't one single Scripture anywhere that refers to angels as incorporeal not one anywhere at all. And I thiught humans are already immortal so if humans are already immortal spirits then when they lose their bodies they become like your supposedly body less angels not when they are resurrected and get superphysical bodies unless the super physical bodies are what is making them like angels.
Litigious1 John 3:2 emphasizes that believers do not yet know the full nature of their future glorified state but affirms that they will be "like Him" (Christ) when they see Him "as He is." This does not imply that believers will have the same nature as God. Rather, it speaks to the believers’ ultimate transformation and participation in the divine life, which includes holiness, immortality, and perfect union with God. It is essential to recognize that while Christ's glorified body is physical (as demonstrated in Luke 24:39, John 20:27), it is not the same as the incorporeal nature of God. The verse points to believers being conformed to Christ's likeness (Romans 8:29), not to the idea of God or angels having "bodies."
I thought the christ is the true God so saying that christ has physical body is the same as saying that God has physical body just like saying that Mary is the mother of christ is the same as saying that Mary is the mother of God. So God has a physical body and is a man according to your church.
Romans ch.1:23 NIV"and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles."
We know that heavenly creatures can temporarily take on human forms see Genesis ch.19 so no the scriptures you cited doesn't prove that Jesus reclaimed his human life thus cancelling the sin offering. Again there isn't one single Scripture anywhere that uses the expression incorporeal to refer to angels not one. Sola scriptura.
Litigious:The suggestion that God has a body is incompatible with biblical teaching about His nature. Scripture consistently portrays God as spirit (John 4:24) and as infinite, invisible, and uncontainable (1 Timothy 1:17, 1 Kings 8:27). God does not have a body in the sense that humans or even resurrected believers do. Anthropomorphic language in Scripture—describing God's "hand," "face," or "eyes"—is metaphorical, used to help finite humans understand aspects of God's actions or character. For example, when the Bible speaks of God's "hand" (Isaiah 41:10), it refers to His power, not a literal physical appendage.
Again spirit has nothing to do with shape form or lack their of but with being beyond our senses a spirit would be any invisible or non tactile current at Genesis 3:8 the word ruach us used to refer to the breezes that characterize the evening period of the day.
Jesus said his God has a morphe a shape and a voice that he had seen and heard. This morphe would be unlike anything in creation so we should not be thinking of a human form which is specifically created for life in the physical world and being composed of physical matter with it's inherent limits it would beyond anything we could even think up.
Litigious;The claim that angels "have bodies" because they appear in human form to the patriarchs (e.g., Genesis 18) misunderstands the nature of these appearances. Angels, as spiritual beings, can assume temporary physical forms to fulfill their missions, but this does not mean they inherently possess bodies. Their essence is spiritual, as affirmed in Hebrews 1:14, and their ability to manifest physically is a divine accommodation for interaction with the material world. This temporary manifestation is not equivalent to possessing a permanent body, whether physical or spiritual.
Myself:I think you are mixing up your arguments I would never make such an argument: Jesus ability to take on human shapes when appearing to his disciples after his resurrection does not prove that he reclaimed his human nature I think that is the point that I would use re:angelic appearances since his resurrection our Lord is no longer human and his taking on fully clothed tangible bodies does not prove otherwise.
Galatians ch.1:1 NIV"Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead"
Litigious:Furthermore, the suggestion that resurrected believers will have bodies "like God's own body" misconstrues the biblical witness. God’s nature is fundamentally different from all creation, including human beings and angels. The resurrection body of believers will be glorified and imperishable (1 Corinthians 15:42-44), like Christ's glorified body (Philippians 3:21), but this does not imply that God has a body. The glorified body is a transformation of the earthly body, suited for eternal life in the new creation, but it remains distinct from God’s incorporeal and infinite nature.
Myself:I thought Christ was God and therefore God is the Son of Mary with physical body.
Having an outward resemblance to God Does not imply equality with JEHOVAH any more than the fact that angels can take on an outward appearance to men means that they are of the same nature as men. No one in heaven has a physical form or will ever have a physical form that definitely includes Jesus.
See 1Corinthians ch.15:50
Ps.Among instances where thayer's lexicon considers dia to denote instrumentality by an authority
Winer's Grammar, 379 (355))) ἐγένετο or ἐκτίσθη: John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6 (where he is expressly distinguished from the first cause: ἐξ αὐτοῦ (Winer's Grammar, 419 (391))); Colossians 1:16 (Winer's Grammar, the passage cited), cf. Hebrews 1:2 (Philo de cherub. § 35). The instrumental cause and the principal are distinguished in 1"
tropically Christ is called πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως (partitive genitive (see below), as in τά πρωτότοκα τῶν προβάτων, Genesis 4:4; τῶν βοῶν, Deuteronomy 12:17; τῶν υἱῶν σου, Exodus 22:29), who came into being through God prior to the entire universe of created things
Brown Driver Briggs on qanah at Proverbs ch.8:22
of God as originating, creating, קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).
Against litigious VII
Litigious:The assertion that qanah in Proverbs 8:22 must mean "created" misunderstands the broader semantic range of the Hebrew term. While qanah can mean "create," it also frequently means "possess" or "acquire," particularly in contexts emphasizing ownership or divine action. The context of Proverbs 8:22 speaks of Wisdom being with God "from the beginning" (reshit), which aligns better with "possess" or "acquire" in a way that emphasizes Wisdom's eternal and integral relationship with God. This interpretation is consistent with the broader biblical portrayal of divine Wisdom as eternal (e.g., Job 28:20-28) and inseparable from God.
Myself:No the Bible never uses beginning to mean eternity thus clearly we are speaking of a creation JEHOVAH'S Wisdom was not acquired
Litigious:The LXX rendering of qanah as ektise ("created") in Proverbs 8:22 does not necessarily imply a temporal act of creation in the sense of bringing something into existence from nothing. The term ektise in Hellenistic Greek can also mean "established" or "ordained," reflecting the ordering of divine Wisdom in God's plan. This reflects an interpretive choice of the translators but does not overturn the Hebrew understanding of Wisdom as an eternal attribute of God. Furthermore, the LXX was influenced by Jewish philosophical and theological frameworks, such as those of Philo, which often depicted Wisdom in personified and functional terms, not as a separate created entity.
Myself: that is why Wisdom here must be an expression of wisdom and not eternal attribute of JEHOVAH. Creation always happens in time in the Bible we reject greco-roman speculation. The ancient Hebrews would likewise have rejected the idea of a multipersonal God.
Litigious:Your citation of various translations that use "created" in Proverbs 8:22 reflects interpretive decisions, not necessarily a definitive rendering of the Hebrew text. Many of these translations prioritize readability over precise theological nuance. The choice of "created" in some Catholic translations reflects an attempt to reconcile the text with the broader narrative of God’s creative work, not an actual endorsement of the idea that Wisdom is a created being. Even within these translations, the eternal and divine nature of Wisdom as an attribute of God remains central.:
Creation is a legitimate rendering in the BIBLE all creation happens within time we and the ancient Hebrews reject creation outside of time.JEHOVAH'S quality of Wisdom is uncreated the idea of an expression of wisdom makes much more sense .
Litigious:The reference to reshit ("beginning") does not necessarily imply a temporal starting point. In Proverbs 8:22, reshit is better understood as indicating primacy or preeminence rather than a chronological beginning. This is supported by the use of reshit in other contexts, such as Genesis 1:1, where it refers to the foundational moment of creation, not to a created entity itself. Similarly, the use of archē in the Greek translation reinforces the idea of preeminence and priorinot a point of creation.
Myself:there is NO Scriptural precedent at all for a creation outside of time all creations are within time. All beginnings refer to time.
Sola scriptura. Genesis proves my point the beginning of his way would not refer to an abstraction. Abstract Wisdom is not the beginning of anything.expressed Wisdom is the beginning of JEHOVAH'S Way.
Ps. Among instances where thayer's lexicon considers dia to denote instrumentality by an authority
Winer's Grammar, 379 (355))) ἐγένετο or ἐκτίσθη: John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6 (where he is expressly distinguished from the first cause: ἐξ αὐτοῦ (Winer's Grammar, 419 (391))); Colossians 1:16 (Winer's Grammar, the passage cited), cf. Hebrews 1:2 (Philo de cherub. § 35). The instrumental cause and the principal are distinguished in 1"
tropically Christ is called πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως (partitive genitive (see below), as in τά πρωτότοκα τῶν προβάτων, Genesis 4:4; τῶν βοῶν, Deuteronomy 12:17; τῶν υἱῶν σου, Exodus 22:29), who came into being through God prior to the entire universe of created things
Brown Driver Briggs on qanah at Proverbs ch.8:22
of God as originating, creating, קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).
Against litigious VI
Litigous:The claim that the Father alone is the source of creation (ex hou, "from whom," as in 1 Corinthians 8:6) does not diminish the Son’s divinity or creative role.
Myself the Father is the only God EX whom all things are there us no other God EX whom all things are the God EX whom all things are is the only God that is entitled to latreo.
1corinthians ch.8:6NKJV"yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him;.. "
Obviously the Father is a nontriune God,if there also a triune God who is also entitled to latreo then we have a case of polytheism only the God EX whom are all things is entitled to latreo.
If the Son is not the source of the power and wisdom in the creation the obviously he is inferior only the one who is the source of the power and wisdom in the creation would be supreme, just as only the one who is the source of the law would be the supreme
John ch.1:17NKJV"For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. "
By your logic Moses must be equal to JEHOVAH
The ones through whom JEHOVAH acts are never equal to him
Litigious:In Trinitarian theology, the Father is the source (arche), but the Son is the agent through whom creation is accomplished. This cooperative activity reflects the unity and equality within the Godhead.
Myself:We don't believe in "theology" we believe in scripture all who JEHOVAH act through ate subordinate to him without exception
Hebrews ch.1:1 NIV"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, "
By your logic the prophets are part of the Godhead.
Note the distinction is not between the Father and his instrument but the GOD and his instrumentality
Litigious:To assert that Christ’s creative role is secondary misunderstands the relational distinction within the Trinity. The Son’s dependence on the Father, as expressed in passages like John 5:19, reflects his incarnational mission and voluntary submission, not his inferiority in essence or nature.
Myself;the distinction is between the God and his instrument not the Father and his instrument,the Father is a nontriune God we cross the line into polytheism if we assert that there is also a triune God who is entitled to latreo.
He is not JEHOVAH if he can become a creature because bible repeatedly assures is that JEHOVAH is not a man see numbers ch.23;19 all statements about JEHOVAH'S Nature are unchangeable facts see malachi ch.3:6 that is why we can put total faith in him.
He mentions raising the dead this after his resurrection when he is no longer man see galatians ch.1:1
Litigious:Moreover, the identification of Christ as the arche ("beginning") in Revelation 3:14 does not support the claim that he is a created being. The term arche has a range of meanings, including "origin," "source," and "ruler." In the context of Revelation and the broader New Testament, it is best understood as signifying Christ’s role as the source and ruler of creation,
Myself: We know that THE God who is distinguished from in the statement and who we agree he is not Numerically identical to is the ultimate source of the creation and that when John wanted to depict him as ruler over the princes of the world he used archon not arche see Revelation ch.1:5.
So know the king James is spot on here the God tou theou is the source and ruler and his son is the starting point of his creation.
Litigious:not as its first product. This interpretation is consistent with Revelation 1:8 and 22:13, where the same term is used for God, who is unquestionably uncreated. Christ shares in this divine identity, as evidenced by his titles "Alpha and Omega" and "First and Last."
Myself: unfortunately for you creation is not mentioned anywhere in this verse thus mist likely has to do with Godhood the God and Father of jesus being declared the only God entitled to latreo
Christ title of first and last has to do with his resurrection,he is the only one who us resurrected without s creature as an instrument every other resurrected one us through Him.
Revelation ch.1:17,18NUV"When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."
JEHOVAH being the unchangeably immortal God cannot die and thus cannot be resurrected. And again nothing to do with creation.
Litigious:Finally, the theological implication that Christ must be subordinate because "the Son can do nothing by himself" (John 5:19) ignores the context of Christ’s earthly ministry and the doctrine of the hypostatic union.
We reject your argument by assertion the scriptures are clear JEHOVAH us not a man nor a Son of Man malachi ch.3:6 let's us know that this is a permanent state of affairs that is the only way it can serve as a guarantee. The fact that he can become lower than the angels proves conclusively that he is not JEHOVAH.
Litigious;In his incarnation, the Son operates in full dependence on the Father to fulfill his redemptive mission. This voluntary dependence does not negate his equality with the Father, as affirmed in John 10:30 ("I and the Father are one") and Philippians 2:6 ("though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped").
Myself;John ch.10:29 jesus makes it plain that his God and Father is greater than all others not most others, this would include the unincarnated spirit,so your incarnation fudge does not work here. At Matthew ch.24:36 he clearly states that only his God and father knows the day or hour this would also exclude the unincarnated spirit,if this knowledge only included Christ in his below the angels state he would not have mentioned the Son after mentioning men,which would include the human christ and angels who were then above the human christ. No, clearly the superhuman christ is included, the unincarnated spirit is not even mentioned.
After his restoration to the superhuman Glory his father continues to be his GOD
Ephesians ch.1:17NIV"I keep asking that the GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit f of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I"
Revelation ch.3:12NIV"The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my GOD. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my GOD and the name of the city of my GOD, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my GOD; and I will also write on them my new name."
JEHOVAH is the MOST HIGH and thus worships NO ONE.
Ps.Among instances where thayer's lexicon considers dia to denote instrumentality by an authority
Winer's Grammar, 379 (355))) ἐγένετο or ἐκτίσθη: John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6 (where he is expressly distinguished from the first cause: ἐξ αὐτοῦ (Winer's Grammar, 419 (391))); Colossians 1:16 (Winer's Grammar, the passage cited), cf. Hebrews 1:2 (Philo de cherub. § 35). The instrumental cause and the principal are distinguished in 1"
tropically Christ is called πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως (partitive genitive (see below), as in τά πρωτότοκα τῶν προβάτων, Genesis 4:4; τῶν βοῶν, Deuteronomy 12:17; τῶν υἱῶν σου, Exodus 22:29), who came into being through God prior to the entire universe of created things
Brown Driver Briggs on qanah at Proverbs ch.8:22
of God as originating, creating, קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).
Wednesday, 15 January 2025
Tuesday, 14 January 2025
GROK on the history of chess.
Chess is a game with a rich and complex history that spans over a millennium. Here's an overview of its development:
Origins:
Early Beginnings (6th Century AD): The origins of chess are often traced back to the 6th century in India, where it was known as "Chaturanga." This game was designed to model military strategy and included four branches of the military: infantry, cavalry, elephants, and chariots, which are represented by pawns, knights, bishops, and rooks respectively in modern chess.
Spread to Persia: By the 7th century, the game had spread to Persia, where it was called "Shatranj." The Persians adapted the game, and it began to take on forms closer to what we recognize today, although with different rules and piece movements.
Medieval Evolution:
Arab World: From Persia, chess spread across the Islamic world. Arab scholars and players contributed significantly to the theory and strategy of the game. The term "checkmate" comes from the Persian "shah mat," meaning "the king is dead."
Europe: By the 10th century, chess had reached Europe through Islamic Spain and the Byzantine Empire. Here, the game underwent further transformations. The pieces were often given new names (e.g., "bishop" from "elephant") and their movements were clarified or changed over time.
Modern Chess:
Renaissance Changes: By the 15th century, especially in Spain and Italy, the modern rules of chess started to crystallize. The queen and bishop became more powerful, leading to a faster, more dynamic game. This period is often seen as the birth of modern chess.
Standardization: In 1561, the Spaniard Ruy López de Segura published "Libro de la invencion liberal y arte del juego del Axedrez," which discussed chess openings and is considered one of the first comprehensive treatises on chess strategy.
19th Century: Chess clubs, tournaments, and the first official world championships began in this era, with Wilhelm Steinitz becoming the first official World Chess Champion in 1886.
20th Century and Beyond: Chess theory, strategy, and endgame studies flourished. The advent of computing introduced computer chess, leading to significant advancements in chess algorithms and the eventual defeat of the reigning world champion Garry Kasparov by IBM's Deep Blue in 1997.
Cultural Impact:
Literature and Art: Chess has influenced numerous works of art, literature, and film, reflecting its deep integration into human culture as a metaphor for life, strategy, and intellectual battle.
Global Spread: Today, chess is played worldwide, with international federations like FIDE (Fédération Internationale des Échecs) organizing global competitions and standardizing rules.
Chess's history is not just about the evolution of a game but also about cultural exchange, intellectual development, and the ongoing human fascination with strategy and competition.
Monday, 13 January 2025
Even the darkness is finetuned?
Dark Matter and Intelligent Design: A Prediction
Sunday, 12 January 2025
Saturday, 11 January 2025
There is still no free lunch re: information.
The Displacement Fallacy: Evolution’s Shell Game
Friday, 10 January 2025
The rejection of ID= The deification of physics?
To Reject Intelligent Design, Here’s What You Have to Believe
Thursday, 9 January 2025
Neanderthals: disinherited no more? II
Neanderthals May Be “Same Species” As Us
A pledge of eternal sacred service.
Psalm ch.19:10,11NIV"They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the honeycomb.
11By them your servant is warned;
in keeping them there is great reward."
If you do not see sacred service according to JEHOVAH'S truth as it's own reward then paradise whether the heavenly paradise or the earthly paradise is not your thing. Because the perfect paradise is essentially sacred service on steroids,
Revelation ch.4:8NIV"Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: “’Holy, holy, holy is the LORD God Almighty,’ who was, and is, and is to come.”"