On the mech and tech of the designer

More on the "Mechanism" of Intelligent Design
Ann Gauger November 14, 2015 3:56 AM

Following on my post yesterday ("What's the Mechanism of Intelligent Design?"), here as promised is a helpful passage from Darwin's Doubt: The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design, pp. 393-398. Biochemist Larry Moran kindly asked how Stephen Meyer thinks design in biology was instantiated. Meyer writes there:

According to [University of Cambridge paleontologist Robert] Asher, the inference to intelligent design is actually "anti-uniformitarian" because it doesn't provide a "mechanism." As he puts it, "by attempting to replace a causal mechanism (natural selection) with an attribution of agency (design), ID advocates such as Meyer are decidedly anti-uniformitarian. What process of today could possibly lead to his understanding of the past?"

The answer to Asher's question seems pretty obvious. The answer is: intelligence. Conscious activity. The deliberate choice of a rational agent. Indeed, we have abundant experience in the present of intelligent agents generating specified information. Our experience of the causal powers of intelligent agents -- of "conscious activity" as "a cause now in operation"-- provides a basis for making inferences about the best explanation of the origin of biological information in the past. In other words, our experience of the cause-and-effect structure of the world -- specifically the cause known to produce large amounts of specified information in the present -- provides a basis for understanding what likely caused large increases in specified information in living systems in the past. It is precisely my reliance on such experience that makes possible an understanding of the type of causes at work in the history of life. It also makes my argument decidedly uniformitarian -- not "anti-uniformitarian" -- in character.

Asher confuses the uniformitarian imperative in historical scientific explanations (the need to cite a presently known or adequate cause) with a demand for citing a material cause, or mechanism. The theory of intelligent design does cite a cause, and indeed one known to produce the effects in question, but it does not necessarily cite a mechanistic or materialistic cause. Proponents of intelligent design may conceive of intelligence as a strictly materialistic phenomenon, something reducible to the neurochemistry of a brain, but they may also conceive of it as part of a mental reality that is irreducible to brain chemistry or any other physical process. They may also understand and define intelligence by reference to their own introspective experience of rational consciousness and take no particular position on the mind-brain question.

Asher assumes that intelligent design denies a materialistic or "physicalist" account of the mind (as I personally do, in fact) and rejects it as unscientific on that basis. But he offers no noncircular reason for making that judgment. He cannot say that the principle of methodological naturalism requires that all genuinely scientific theories invoke only mechanistic causes, because the principle of methodological naturalism itself needs justification. And asserting that "all genuinely scientific theories must provide mechanisms" is just to restate the principle of methodological naturalism in different words. Indeed, to say that all scientific explanations must provide a mechanism is equivalent to saying that they must cite materialistic causes -- precisely what the principle of methodological naturalism asserts. Asher seems to be assuming without justification that all scientifically acceptable causes are mechanistic or materialistic. His argument thus assumes a key point at issue, which is whether there are independent -- that is, metaphysically neutral -- reasons for requiring historical scientific theories to cite materialistic causes in their explanations as opposed to explanations that invoke possibly immaterial entities such as creative intelligence, mind, mental action, agency, or intelligent design.

In any case, he confuses the logical requirement of citing a vera causa, a true or known cause, with an arbitrary requirement to cite only materialistic causes. He confuses uniformitarianism with methodological naturalism. 38 He then critiques my design argument for rejecting the former, though it only rejects the latter. In so doing, he imposes an additional requirement on explanations of past events that leads him to mistake my argument as anti- uniformitarian and to miss the evidence for intelligent design. His implicit commitment to methodological naturalism makes the evidence for intelligent design -- "the postman," as it were -- mentally invisible to him.

Nevertheless, the concern that he raises about the theory of intelligent design not citing a mechanism still troubles people. In fact, I frequently get questions about this issue. People will ask something like this: "I can see your point about digital code providing evidence for intelligent design, but how exactly did the designing intelligence generate that information or arrange matter to form cells or animals?" Or: "How did the intelligent designer that you infer impress its ideas on matter to form animals?" As Asher puts it, "How could a biological phenomenon, even if designed, be simply willed into existence without an actual mechanism?"

To help clear things up, several points need to be considered. First, the theory of intelligent design does not provide a mechanistic account of the origin of biological information or form, nor does it attempt to. Instead, it offers an alternative causal explanation involving a mental, rather than a necessarily or exclusively material, cause for the origin of that reality. It attributes the origin of information in living organisms to thought, to the rational activity of a mind, not a strictly material process or mechanism. That does not make it deficient as a materialistic or mechanistic explanation. It makes it an alternative to that kind of explanation. Advocates of intelligent design do not propose intelligent causes because they cannot think of a possible mechanistic explanation for the origin of form or information. They propose intelligent design because they think it provides a better, more causally adequate explanation for these realities. Given what we know from experience about the origin of information, materialistic explanations are the deficient ones.

There is a different context in which someone might want to ask about a mechanism. He or she may wish to know by what means the information, once originated, is transmitted to the world of matter. In our experience, intelligent agents, after generating information, often use material means to transmit that information. A teacher may write on a chalkboard with a piece of chalk or an ancient scribe may have chiseled an inscription in a piece of rock with a metal implement. Often, those who want to know about the mechanism of intelligent design are not necessarily challenging the idea that information ultimately originates in thought. They want to know how, or by what material means, the intelligent agent responsible for the information in living systems transmitted that information to a material entity such as a strand of DNA. To use a term from philosophy, they want to know about "the efficient cause" at work.

The answer is: We simply don't know. We don't have enough evidence or information about what happened, in the Cambrian explosion or other events in the history of life, to answer questions about what exactly happened, even though we can establish from the clues left behind that an intelligent designer played a causal role in the origin of living forms.

An illustration from archaeology helps explain how this can be so. Years ago explorers of a remote island in the southwestern Pacific Ocean discovered a group of enormous stone figures. The figures displayed the distinctive shape of human faces. These figures left no doubt as to their ultimate origin in thought. Nevertheless, archeologists still don't know the exact means by which they were carved or erected. The ancient head carvers might have used metallic hammers, rock chisels, or lasers for that matter. Though archaeologists lack the evidence to decide between various hypotheses about how the figures were constructed, they can still definitely infer that intelligent agents made them. In the same way, we can infer that an intelligence played a causal role in the origin of the Cambrian animals, even if we cannot decide what material means, if any, the designing intelligence used to transmit the information, or shape matter, or impart its design ideas to living form. Although the theory of intelligent design infers that an intelligent cause played a role in shaping life's history, it does not say how the intelligent cause affected matter. Nor does it have to do so.

There is a logical reason we cannot without further information determine the mechanism or means by which the intelligent agent responsible for life transmitted its design to matter. We can infer an intelligent cause from certain features of the physical world, because intelligence is known to be a necessary cause, the only known cause, of those features. That allows us to infer intelligence retrospectively as a cause by observing its distinctive effects. Nevertheless, we cannot establish a unique scenario describing how the intelligent agent responsible for life arranged or impressed its ideas on matter, because there are many different possible means by which an idea in the mind of an intelligent agent could be transmitted or instantiated in the physical world.

There is another even more profound reason that intelligent design -- indeed, science itself -- may not be able to offer a completely mechanistic account of the instantiation of thought into matter. Robert Asher worries about how "a biological phenomenon, even if designed," could be "simply willed into existence without an actual mechanism." In Asher's understanding, the uniformitarian principle asks for a precedent, a known cause that not only generates information, but translates immaterial thought into material reality, impressing itself on and shaping the physical world. Asher complains that the argument for intelligent design cannot cite such a precedent and is thus "anti- uniformitarian."

Yet a precedent comes very readily to mind, an intimately familiar one for us all. At present no one has any idea how our thoughts -- the decisions and choices that occur in our conscious minds -- affect our material brains, nerves, and muscles, going on to instantiate our will in the material world of objects. However, we know that is exactly what our thoughts do. We have no mechanistic explanation for the mystery of consciousness, nor what is called the "mind- body problem" -- the enigma of how thought affects the material state of our brains, bodies, and the world that we affect with them. Yet there is no doubt that we can -- as the result of events in our conscious minds called decisions or choices -- "will into existence" information-rich arrangements of matter or otherwise affect material states in the world. Professor Asher did this when he wrote the chapter in his book -- representing his ideas impressed as words onto a material object, a printed page -- attempting to refute intelligent design. I am doing this right now. This example, representative of countless daily experiences in life, surely satisfies the demands of uniformitarianism.


Though neuroscience can give no mechanistic explanation for consciousness or the mind-body problem, we also know that we can recognize the product of thought, the effect of intelligent design, in its distinctive information-rich manifestations. Professor Asher recognized evidence of thought when he read the text in my book; I did so when I read his; you are doing so right now. Thus, even though it remains entirely possible that we may never know how minds affect matter and, therefore, that there may always be a gap in our attempt to account for how a designing mind affected the material out of which living systems were formed, it does not follow that we cannot recognize evidence of the activity of mind in living systems.

The Watchtower Society's commentary on idolatry.

IDOL, IDOLATRY;

An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.

The Hebrew terms used to refer to idols often highlighted the origin and inherent worthlessness of idols, or they were derogatory terms of contempt. Among these are words rendered “carved or graven image” (literally, something carved out); “molten statue, image, or idol” (literally, something cast or poured out); “horrible idol”; “vain idol” (literally, vanity); and “dungy idol.” “Idol” is the usual rendering of the Greek word eiʹdo·lon.

Not All Images Are Idols. God’s law not to form images (Ex 20:4, 5) did not rule out the making of all representations and statues. This is indicated by Jehovah’s later command to make two golden cherubs on the cover of the Ark and to embroider representations of cherubs on the inner tent covering of ten tent cloths for the tabernacle and the curtain separating the Holy from the Most Holy. (Ex 25:18; 26:1, 31, 33) Likewise, the interior of Solomon’s temple, the architectural plans for which were given to David by divine inspiration (1Ch 28:11, 12), was beautifully embellished with engraved carvings of cherubs, palm-tree figures, and blossoms. Two cherubs of oil-tree wood overlaid with gold stood in the Most Holy of that temple. (1Ki 6:23, 28, 29) The molten sea rested upon 12 copper bulls, and the sidewalls of the copper carriages for temple use were decorated with figures of lions, bulls, and cherubs. (1Ki 7:25, 28, 29) Twelve lions lined the steps leading up to Solomon’s throne.—2Ch 9:17-19.

These representations, however, were not idols for worship. Only the officiating priests saw the representations of the tabernacle interior and, later, of the temple interior. No one but the high priest entered the Most Holy, and that only on the Day of Atonement. (Heb 9:7) Thus there was no danger of the Israelites’ being ensnared into idolizing the golden cherubs in the sanctuary. These representations primarily served as a picture of the heavenly cherubs. (Compare Heb 9:23, 24.) That they were not to be venerated is evident from the fact that the angels themselves were not to be worshiped.—Col 2:18; Re 19:10; 22:8, 9.

Of course, there were times when images became idols, although not originally intended as objects of veneration. The copper serpent that Moses formed in the wilderness came to be worshiped, and therefore faithful King Hezekiah crushed it to pieces. (Nu 21:9; 2Ki 18:1, 4) The ephod made by Judge Gideon became “a snare” to him and to his household.—Jg 8:27.

Images as Aids in Worship. The Scriptures do not sanction the use of images as a means to address God in prayer. Such a practice runs counter to the principle that those seeking to serve Jehovah must worship him with spirit and truth. (Joh 4:24; 2Co 4:18; 5:6, 7) He tolerates no mixing of idolatrous practices with true worship, as is illustrated by his condemnation of calf worship, although the Israelites had attached his name thereto. (Ex 32:3-10) Jehovah does not share his glory with graven images.—Isa 42:8.

There is not a single instance in Scripture where faithful servants of Jehovah resorted to the use of visual aids to pray to God or engaged in a form of relative worship. Of course, some may cite Hebrews 11:21, which, according to the Catholic Douay Version, reads: “By faith Jacob, dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and adored the top of his rod.” Then in a footnote on this scripture it is held that Jacob paid relative honor and veneration to the top of Joseph’s rod, and the comment is made: “Some translators, who are no friends to this relative honour, have corrupted the text, by translating it: he worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.” However, rather than being a corruption of the text, as this footnote maintains, this latter rendering and comparable variants thereof are in agreement with the sense of the Hebrew text at Genesis 47:31 and have been adopted even by a number of Catholic translations, including The Jerusalem Bible.

Forms of Idolatry. Acts of idolatry referred to in the Bible included such revolting practices as ceremonial prostitution, child sacrifice, drunkenness, and self-laceration to the point of causing blood to flow. (1Ki 14:24; 18:28; Jer 19:3-5; Ho 4:13, 14; Am 2:8) Idols were venerated by partaking of food and drink in festivals or ceremonies in their honor (Ex 32:6; 1Co 8:10), by bowing and sacrificing to them, by song and dance before them, and even by a kiss. (Ex 32:8, 18, 19; 1Ki 19:18; Ho 13:2) Idolatry was also committed by arranging a table of food and drink for false gods (Isa 65:11), by making drink offerings, sacrificial cakes, and sacrificial smoke (Jer 7:18; 44:17), and by weeping in religious ceremony (Eze 8:14). Certain actions, such as tattooing the flesh, making cuttings upon the flesh, imposing baldness on the forehead, cutting the sidelocks, and destroying the extremity of the beard, were prohibited by the Law, possibly, at least in part, because of being linked with prevailing idolatrous practices of neighboring peoples.—Le 19:26-28; De 14:1.

Then there are the more subtle forms of idolatry. Covetousness is idolatry (Col 3:5), since the object of an individual’s cravings diverts affection from the Creator and thus, in effect, becomes an idol. Instead of serving Jehovah God in faithfulness, a person can become a slave to his belly, that is, to fleshly desire or appetite, and make this his god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) Since love for the Creator is demonstrated by obedience (1Jo 5:3), rebellion and pushing ahead presumptuously are comparable to acts of idolatry.—1Sa 15:22, 23.

Pre-Flood Idolatry. Idolatry had its beginning, not in the visible realm, but in the invisible. A glorious spirit creature developed the covetous desire to resemble the Most High. So strong was his desire that it alienated him from his God, Jehovah, and his idolatry caused him to rebel.—Job 1:6-11; 1Ti 3:6; compare Isa 14:12-14; Eze 28:13-15, 17.

Similarly, Eve constituted herself the first human idolater by coveting the forbidden fruit, this wrong desire leading her to disobey God’s command. By allowing selfish desire to rival his love for Jehovah and then by disobeying him, Adam likewise became guilty of idolatry.—Ge 3:6, 17.

Since the rebellion in Eden, only a minority of mankind have remained free from idolatry. During the lifetime of Adam’s grandson Enosh, men apparently practiced a form of idolatry. “At that time a start was made of calling on the name of Jehovah.” (Ge 4:26) But evidently this was no calling upon Jehovah in faith, something done by righteous Abel many years earlier and for which he suffered martyrdom at the hands of his brother Cain. (Ge 4:4, 5, 8) Apparently, what was started in the days of Enosh was a false form of worship in which Jehovah’s name was misused or improperly applied. Either men applied Jehovah’s name to themselves or to other men (through whom they pretended to approach God in worship), or else they applied the divine name to idol objects (as a visible, tangible aid in their attempt to worship the invisible God).

To what extent idolatry was practiced from the days of Enosh until the Flood, the Bible record does not reveal. The situation must have progressively deteriorated, because in Noah’s day “Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time.” Besides the inherited sinful inclination of man, the materialized angels, who had relations with the daughters of men, and the hybrid offspring of these unions, the Nephilim, exerted upon the world of that time a strong influence toward bad.—Ge 6:4, 5.

Idolatry in Patriarchal Times. Although the Flood of Noah’s day destroyed all human idolaters, idolatry began anew, spearheaded by Nimrod, “a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah.” (Ge 10:9) Doubtless under Nimrod’s direction, the building of Babel and its tower (likely a ziggurat for use in idolatrous worship) began. The plans of those builders were frustrated when Jehovah confused their language. No longer being able to understand one another, they gradually left off building the city and scattered. However, the idolatry that began at Babel did not end there. Wherever those builders went they carried their false religious concepts.—Ge 11:1-9; see GODS AND GODDESSES.

The next city mentioned in the Scriptures, Ur of the Chaldeans, like Babel, was not devoted to the worship of the true God, Jehovah. Archaeological diggings there have revealed that the patron deity of that city was the moon-god Sin. It was in Ur that Terah, the father of Abram (Abraham), resided. (Ge 11:27, 28) Living in the midst of idolatry, Terah may have engaged in it, as is indicated centuries later by Joshua’s words to the Israelites: “It was on the other side of the River [Euphrates] that your forefathers dwelt a long time ago, Terah the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, and they used to serve other gods.” (Jos 24:2) But Abraham displayed faith in the true God, Jehovah.

Wherever Abraham, and later his descendants, went they met up with idolatry, influenced by the original apostasy at Babel. So there was an ever-present danger of being contaminated by such idolatry. Even those related to Abraham had idols. Laban, who was the father-in-law of Abraham’s grandson Jacob, had teraphim, or family gods, in his possession. (Ge 31:19, 31, 32) Jacob himself found it necessary to instruct his household to put away all their foreign gods, and he hid the idols turned over to him. (Ge 35:2-4) Perhaps he disposed of them in this way so that none in his household might reuse the metal as something having special value on account of its previous idolatrous use. Whether Jacob initially melted or smashed the images is not stated.

Idolatry and God’s Covenant People. As Jehovah had indicated to Abraham, his descendants, the Israelites, became alien residents in a land not theirs, namely Egypt, and suffered affliction there. (Ge 15:13) In Egypt they came in contact with rank idolatry, for image making ran riot in that country. Many of the deities worshiped there were represented by animal heads, among them being the cat-headed Bast, the cow-headed Hathor, the falcon-headed Horus, the jackal-headed Anubis (PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 946), and the ibis-headed Thoth, to name but a few. Creatures of sea, air, and land were venerated, and at death “sacred” animals were mummified.

The Law that Jehovah gave to his people after liberating them from Egypt was explicitly directed against idolatrous practices so prevalent among the ancients. The second of the Ten Commandments expressly prohibited making for worship a carved image or a representation of anything in the heavens, on the earth, or in the waters. (Ex 20:4, 5; De 5:8, 9) In his final exhortations to the Israelites, Moses emphasized the impossibility of making an image of the true God and warned them to beware of the snare of idolatry. (De 4:15-19) To further safeguard the Israelites from becoming idolaters, they were commanded not to conclude any covenant with the pagan inhabitants of the land they were entering or to form marriage alliances with them, but to annihilate them. All existing appendages of idolatry—altars, sacred pillars, sacred poles, and graven images—were to be destroyed.—De 7:2-5.

Moses’ successor Joshua assembled all the tribes of Israel at Shechem and admonished them to remove the false gods and to serve Jehovah faithfully. The people agreed to do so and continued serving Jehovah during his lifetime and that of the older men who extended their days after Joshua. (Jos 24:14-16, 31) But thereafter wholesale apostasy set in. The people began worshiping Canaanite deities—Baal, Ashtoreth, and the sacred pole, or Asherah. Hence, Jehovah abandoned the Israelites into the hands of their enemies. However, when they repented, he mercifully raised up judges to deliver them.—Jg 2:11-19; 3:7; see ASHTORETH; BAAL No. 4; SACRED PILLAR; SACRED POLE.

Under the rule of the kings. During the reigns of Israel’s first king, Saul, of his son Ish-bosheth, and of David, there is no mention of large-scale idolatry being engaged in by the Israelites. Nevertheless, there are indications that idolatry lingered on in the kingdom. Saul’s own daughter, Michal, for instance, had a teraphim image in her possession. (1Sa 19:13; see TERAPHIM.) It was not until the latter part of the reign of David’s son Solomon, however, that outright idolatry came to be practiced, the monarch himself, under the influence of his many foreign wives, giving the impetus to idolatry by sanctioning it. High places were built to Ashtoreth, Chemosh, and Milcom, or Molech. The people in general succumbed to false worship and began bowing down to these idol gods.—1Ki 11:3-8, 33; 2Ki 23:13; see CHEMOSH; MOLECH.

On account of this idolatry, Jehovah ripped ten tribes away from Solomon’s son Rehoboam and gave these to Jeroboam. (1Ki 11:31-35; 12:19-24) Although assured that his kingdom would remain firm if he continued serving Jehovah in faithfulness, Jeroboam, on becoming king, instituted calf worship, fearing that the people would revolt against his rule if they continued going to Jerusalem for worship. (1Ki 11:38; 12:26-33) Idolatrous calf worship continued all the days the ten-tribe kingdom existed, with Tyrian Baalism being introduced during Ahab’s reign. (1Ki 16:30-33) Not all apostatized, however. While Ahab reigned, there still was a remnant of 7,000 who had neither bent the knee to nor kissed Baal, and this at a time when Jehovah’s prophets were being killed with the sword, doubtless at the instigation of Ahab’s wife Jezebel.—1Ki 19:1, 2, 14, 18; Ro 11:4; see CALF (Calf Worship).

With the exception of Jehu’s eradication of Baal worship (2Ki 10:20-28), there is no record of any religious reform being undertaken by a monarch of the ten-tribe kingdom. To the prophets repeatedly sent by Jehovah, the people and rulers of the northern kingdom gave no heed, so that finally the Almighty abandoned them into the hands of the Assyrians because of their sordid record of idolatry.—2Ki 17:7-23.

In the kingdom of Judah, the situation was not much different, aside from the reforms carried out by certain kings. Whereas a divided kingdom had come about as a direct result of idolatry, Solomon’s son Rehoboam did not take to heart Jehovah’s discipline and shun idolatry. As soon as his position was secure, he and all Judah with him apostatized. (2Ch 12:1) The people built high places, equipping these with sacred pillars and sacred poles, and engaged in ceremonial prostitution. (1Ki 14:23, 24) Although Abijam (Abijah) expressed faith in Jehovah at the time he warred against Jeroboam and was blessed with victory, to a large extent he imitated the sinful course of his father and predecessor on the throne, Rehoboam.—1Ki 15:1, 3; 2Ch 13:3-18.

The next two Judean kings, Asa and Jehoshaphat, served Jehovah in faithfulness and endeavored to rid the kingdom of idolatry. But Judah was so steeped in worship at high places that, despite the efforts of both of these kings to destroy them, the high places seem to have persisted secretly or they cropped up again.—1Ki 15:11-14; 22:42, 43; 2Ch 14:2-5; 17:5, 6; 20:31-33.

The reign of Judah’s next king, Jehoram, commenced with bloodshed and began a new chapter in Judah’s idolatry. This is attributed to his having idolatrous Ahab’s daughter, Athaliah, as wife. (2Ch 21:1-4, 6, 11) The queen mother Athaliah also proved to be the counselor to Jehoram’s son Ahaziah. Hence, during the rule of Ahaziah and that of the usurper Athaliah, idolatry continued with the approval of the crown.—2Ch 22:1-3, 12.

Early in the reign of Jehoash, following the execution of Athaliah, there was a restoration of true worship. But upon the death of High Priest Jehoiada, there was a return to idol worship at the instigation of Judah’s princes. (2Ki 12:2, 3; 2Ch 24:17, 18) Jehovah therefore abandoned the Judean forces into the hands of the invading Syrians, and Jehoash was murdered by his own servants.—2Ch 24:23-25.

Undoubtedly the execution of God’s judgment upon Judah and the violent death of Amaziah’s father Jehoash made a deep impression upon Amaziah, so that he proceeded at first to do what was right in Jehovah’s eyes. (2Ch 25:1-4) But after defeating the Edomites and taking their images, he began serving the gods of his vanquished foes. (2Ch 25:14) Retribution came when Judah was defeated by the ten-tribe kingdom and later when Amaziah was murdered by conspirators. (2Ch 25:20-24, 27) Although Azariah (Uzziah) and his son Jotham are reported generally to have done what was right in Jehovah’s eyes, their subjects persisted in idolatry at the high places.—2Ki 15:1-4, 32-35; 2Ch 26:3, 4, 16-18; 27:1, 2.

During the kingship of Jotham’s son Ahaz, Judah’s religious state reached a new low. Ahaz began to practice idolatry on a scale never known before in Judah; he was the first-reported Judean king to have sacrificed his offspring in the fire as a false religious act. (2Ki 16:1-4; 2Ch 28:1-4) Jehovah chastised Judah by means of defeats at the hands of their enemies. Ahaz, instead of repenting, concluded that the gods of the kings of Syria were giving them the victory and therefore decided to sacrifice to these deities so that they might also help him. (2Ch 28:5, 23) Furthermore, the doors of Jehovah’s temple were closed, and its utensils were cut to pieces.—2Ch 28:24.

While Ahaz did not benefit from Jehovah’s discipline, his son Hezekiah did. (2Ch 29:1, 5-11) In the very first year of his becoming king, Hezekiah restored the true worship of Jehovah. (2Ch 29:3) His reign saw the destruction of appendages of false worship not only in Judah and Benjamin but also in Ephraim and Manasseh.—2Ch 31:1.

But Hezekiah’s own son Manasseh completely revived idolatry. (2Ki 21:1-7; 2Ch 33:1-7) As to the reasons for this, the Bible record is silent. Manasseh, who began ruling as a 12-year-old, may have been wrongly directed initially by counselors and princes not exclusively devoted to Jehovah’s service. Unlike Ahaz, though, Manasseh, as a captive in Babylon, repented upon receiving this severe discipline from Jehovah and undertook reforms upon returning to Jerusalem. (2Ch 33:10-16) His son Amon, however, reverted to sacrificing to the graven images.—2Ch 33:21-24.

Next came Josiah’s rule and a thorough eradication of idolatry in Judah. The sites of idolatrous worship were desecrated there and even in the cities of Samaria. The foreign-god priests and those making sacrificial smoke to Baal, as well as to the sun, the moon, the constellations of the zodiac, and all the army of the heavens, were put out of business. (2Ki 23:4-27; 2Ch 34:1-5) Still this large-scale campaign against idolatry did not effect permanent reform. The last four Judean kings, Jehoahaz, Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin, and Zedekiah, persisted in idolatry.—2Ki 23:31, 32, 36, 37; 24:8, 9, 18, 19; see ASTROLOGERS; HIGH PLACES; ZODIAC.

The references to idolatry in the writings of the prophets further cast light on what occurred during the last years of the kingdom of Judah. Sites of idolatry, ceremonial prostitution, and child sacrifice continued to exist. (Jer 3:6; 17:1-3; 19:2-5; 32:29, 35; Eze 6:3, 4) Even Levites were guilty of practicing idolatry. (Eze 44:10, 12, 13) Ezekiel, transported in vision to Jerusalem’s temple, there saw a detestable idol, “the symbol of jealousy,” and the veneration of representations of creeping things and loathsome beasts, as well as the according of reverence to the false god Tammuz and the sun.—Eze 8:3, 7-16.

Despite the fact that the Israelites adored idols to the point of sacrificing their own children, they carried on a semblance of worshiping Jehovah and reasoned that no calamity would befall them. (Jer 7:4, 8-12; Eze 23:36-39) So empty-headed had the people in general become by reason of their pursuit of idolatry that when calamity did come and Jerusalem was desolated by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E., in fulfillment of Jehovah’s word, they attributed it to their failure to make sacrificial smoke and drink offerings to the “queen of the heavens.”—Jer 44:15-18; see QUEEN OF THE HEAVENS.

Why Israel Turned to Idolatry. There were a number of factors that caused so many Israelites repeatedly to abandon true worship. Being one of the works of the flesh, idolatry appealed to the desires of the flesh. (Ga 5:19-21) Once settled in the Promised Land, the Israelites may have observed their pagan neighbors, whom they had failed to drive out entirely, having good success with their crops by reason of longer experience in working the land. Likely many made inquiry and heeded the advice of their Canaanite neighbors as to what was needed to please the Baal, or “owner,” of each piece of land.—Ps 106:34-39.

Forming marriage alliances with idolaters was another inducement to apostatize. (Jg 3:5, 6) The unrestrained sexual indulgence associated with idolatry proved to be no little temptation. At Shittim on the Plains of Moab, for instance, thousands of Israelites yielded to immorality and engaged in false worship. (Nu 22:1; 25:1-3) To some, being able to give way to unrestrained drinking at the sanctuaries of false gods may have been tempting.—Am 2:8.

Then there was the attraction of supposedly learning what the future had in store, this stemming from a desire to be assured that all would go well. Examples of this are Saul’s consulting a spirit medium and Ahaziah’s sending to inquire of Baal-zebub the god of Ekron.—1Sa 28:6-11; 2Ki 1:2, 3.

The Folly of Idol Worship. Time and again the Scriptures call attention to the foolishness of relying on gods of wood, stone, or metal. Isaiah describes the manufacture of idols and shows the stupidity of a person who uses part of the wood of a tree to cook his food and to warm himself and then makes the remainder into a god to whom he looks for aid. (Isa 44:9-20) In the day of Jehovah’s fury, wrote Isaiah, false worshipers would throw their worthless idols to the shrewmice and to the bats. (Isa 2:19-21) “Woe to the one saying to the piece of wood: ‘O do awake!’ to a dumb stone: ‘O wake up!’” (Hab 2:19) Those making dumb idols will become just like them, that is, lifeless.—Ps 115:4-8; 135:15-18; see Re 9:20.

Viewpoint Toward Idolatry. Faithful servants of Jehovah have always regarded idols with abhorrence. In Scripture, false gods and idols are repeatedly referred to in contemptible terms, as being valueless (1Ch 16:26; Ps 96:5; 97:7), horrible (1Ki 15:13; 2Ch 15:16), shameful (Jer 11:13; Ho 9:10), detestable (Eze 16:36, 37), and disgusting (Eze 37:23). Often mention is made of “dungy idols,” this expression being a rendering of the Hebrew word gil·lu·limʹ, which is related to a word meaning “dung.” (1Ki 14:10; Zep 1:17) This term of contempt, first appearing at Leviticus 26:30, is found nearly 40 times in the book of Ezekiel alone, beginning with chapter 6, verse 4.

Faithful Job recognized that even if his heart became enticed in secrecy at beholding heavenly bodies such as the moon and his ‘hand proceeded to kiss his mouth’ (apparently alluding to throwing a kiss with the hand in an idolatrous practice), this would have constituted a denial of God, hence idolatry. (Job 31:26-28; compare De 4:15, 19.) With reference to a practicer of righteousness, Jehovah said through the prophet Ezekiel, “His eyes he did not raise to the dungy idols of the house of Israel,” that is, to offer supplication to them or in expectation of help from them.—Eze 18:5, 6.

Another fine example of shunning idolatry was that of the three Hebrews, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who, although threatened with death in the fiery furnace, refused to bow before the image of gold erected by King Nebuchadnezzar in the Plain of Dura.—Da 3.

The early Christians heeded the inspired counsel: “Flee from idolatry” (1Co 10:14), and image makers viewed Christianity as a threat to their profitable business. (Ac 19:23-27) As testified to by secular historians, remaining free from idolatry often placed Christians living in the Roman Empire in a position similar to that of the three Hebrews. Acknowledging the divine character of the emperor as head of the state by offering a pinch of incense could have spared such Christians from death, but few compromised. Those early Christians fully appreciated that once they turned away from idols to serve the true God (1Th 1:9), a return to idolatry would mean their being debarred from the New Jerusalem and their losing out on the prize of life.—Re 21:8; 22:14, 15.


Servants of Jehovah must guard themselves from idols (1Jo 5:21), even today. It was foretold that great pressures would be brought to bear against all the inhabitants of the earth to worship the symbolic “wild beast” and its “image.” None who persist in such idolatrous worship will receive God’s gift of life everlasting. “Here is where it means endurance for the holy ones.”—Re 13:15-17; 14:9-12; 

Skeptic:Old CW iconoclast;New CW gatekeeper.

"Skeptic": A Sadly Abused Term
David Klinghoffer February 28, 2012 5:37 PM

Political philosopher John Gray is, as our friend James Barham describes him,

impossible to classify according to our ordinary categories. He is obviously no believer. It is not even clear he is really a friend of traditional theistic religion. But he is even more opposed to the religious pretensions of science.
James points out this great passage from Gray's 2007 book Straw Dogs:
[S]cience alone has the power to silence heretics. Today it is the only institution that can claim authority. Like the Church in the past, it has the power to destroy, or marginalise, independent thinkers....In fact, science does not yield any fixed picture of things, but by censoring thinkers who stray too far from current orthodoxies it preserves the comforting illusion of a single established worldview. From the standpoint of anyone who values freedom of thought, this may be unfortunate, but it is undoubtedly the chief source of science's appeal. For us, science is a refuge from uncertainty, promising -- and in some measure delivering -- the miracle of freedom from thought; while churches have become sanctuaries for doubt. (p. 19)
Ain't it true? This makes me think of how, in the hands of Darwinists and other enforcers, the word "skeptic" has come to be so widely abused lately, as to designate the exact opposite of what it should seem to mean: not people who doubt but people who insist on the absolute truth of their beliefs, mock the beliefs of others, and try to silence dissenters. If you ever visit the Why Evolution Is True blog, you may recall Jerry Coyne's shock to discover that Alex Tsakiris of Skeptico was not a lockstep orthodox believer in pseudo-skeptic Jerry Coyne's litany of Darwinist beliefs.

What I hadn't really recognized clearly is the extent to which, as Gray points out, "faith communities," so called, in fact nurture today's genuine skeptics. But now that he says it, it's obvious really.

Even ancient brains doubt Darwin

Contrary to claims, ancient brains can fossilize:

Some have. And they are said to “turn paleontology on its head.”

F. protensa is 520 mya or so. (They had brains back then?)

From Eurekalert:

Science has long dictated that brains don’t fossilize, so when Nicholas Strausfeld co-authored the first ever report of a fossilized brain in a 2012 edition of Nature, it was met with “a lot of flack.”

…

His latest paper in Current Biology addresses these doubts head-on, with definitive evidence that, indeed, brains do fossilize.

…

The only way to become fossilized is, first, to get rapidly buried. Hungry scavengers can’t eat a carcass if it’s buried, and as long as the water is anoxic enough – that is, lacking in oxygen – a buried creature’s tissues evade consumption by bacteria as well. Strausfeld and his collaborators suspect F. protensa was buried by rapid, underwater mudslides, a scenario they experimentally recreated by burying sandworms and cockroaches in mud.

This is only step one. Step two, explained Strausfeld, is where most brains would fail: Withstanding the pressure from being rapidly buried under thick, heavy mud.





To have been able to do this, the F. protensa nervous system must have been remarkably dense. In fact, tissues of nervous systems, including brains, are densest in living arthropods. As a small, tightly packed cellular network of fats and proteins, the brain and central nervous system could pass step two, just as did the sandworm and cockroach brains in Strausfeld’s lab.

What the fossil brains turn up should be interesting. Especially in view of this:


Similarly, a recently discovered 425-million-year-old crustacean showed no significant changes in internal body parts, compared to present-day specimens. One researcher called it “a demonstration of unbelievable stability.” But the stability is only unbelievable if we start with Darwin’s assumption that “natural selection is daily and hourly scrutinizing, throughout the world, every variation, even the slightest.” Apparently not.

Are the dead really dead?: pros II

REBUTTAL BY RUTHERFORD. 

"I was somewhat surprised at my friend; for he said that no man has made much progress in 
studying the Bible who would quote Job. He devoted a large part of his argument to Job, as the 
record will show, for the stenographers have taken it. However, I didn't mention Job at all. 
(Laughter.) The fact is that Brother Troy had prepared his speech, and he thought I was going 
to mention Job and therefore he spoke about it. (Laughter.) How does it look for a minister to 
repudiate the Bible? The Book of Job is in the Bible, and haven't we taken it as such? Surely so. 
I stand by what the Bible says. 

"Now then, Brother Troy said that, and then he quoted this from Job: 'Therefore have I uttered 
that which I under-stand not. The thing is too wonderful for me.' Of course Job said that and the 
Bible says (1 Peter 1:21), 'Holy men of old wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, and 
not what they knew themselves. 'For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for 
our learning.' (Romans 15:4.) But God said to the other -- to Job's friend, 'He has not spoken of 
me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.' In other words, God said Job did not lie with 
his mouth, and the other did. Now, then, notice this: Mathew 10:28 -- Brother Troy read part of 
this text, but he didn't read all of it. He read 'Fear not them which are able to kill the body, but 
are not able to kill the soul,' and stopped there. The balance of the verse reads, 'But fear him 
who is able to destroy both soul and body.' (Applause.)
 "Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the 
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it. 

MOSES AND BURNING BUSH. 

"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should 
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.' 

"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as 
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that, 
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the 
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection. 
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when 
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is 
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.' 

"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up? 
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth; 
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle 
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives 
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My 
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All 
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus 
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The 
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus 
Christ. 

ABSENCE FROM THE BODY. 

"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of 
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not 
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in 
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal 
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned 
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say, 
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this 
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave 
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My 
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord. 
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died? 

"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good 
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which 
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his "Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the 
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it. 

MOSES AND BURNING BUSH. 

"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should 
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.' 

"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as 
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that, 
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the 
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection. 
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when 
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is 
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.' 

"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up? 
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth; 
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle 
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives 
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My 
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All 
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus 
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The 
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus 
Christ. 

ABSENCE FROM THE BODY. 

"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of 
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not 
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in 
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal 
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned 
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say, 
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this 
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave 
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My 
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord. 
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died? 

"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good 
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which 
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second 
coming of Christ. 

Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say 
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For 
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians. 
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be 
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than 
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be 
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the 
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and 
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he 
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not 
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and 
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so 
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His 
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him"Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the 
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it. 

MOSES AND BURNING BUSH. 

"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should 
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.' 

"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as 
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that, 
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the 
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection. 
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when 
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is 
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.' 

"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up? 
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth; 
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle 
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives 
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My 
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All 
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus 
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The 
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus 
Christ. 

ABSENCE FROM THE BODY. 

"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of 
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not 
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in 
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal 
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned 
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say, 
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this 
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave 
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My 
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord. 
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died? 

"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good 
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which 
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second 
coming of Christ. 

Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say 
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For 
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians. 
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be 
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than 
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be 
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the 
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and 
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he 
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not 
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and 
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so 
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His 
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him. 

THE THIRD HEAVEN. 

"He says St. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and therefore was living while he was 
dead. My answer to that is this: The apostle points out that there are three heavens and three 
earths. The first heaven and first earth passed away at the time of the flood, says the Apostle 
Peter; not the habitation of Jehovah, not the literal earth, but the Greek word says the kosmos, 
as my friend knows, means arrangement or the order of things. The first heaven was under the 
administration of angels, says the apostle. After the flood there has been another ecclesiastical 
system or order of things in the earth. The third heaven is what? The kingdom of the Lord Jesus 
Christ, who shall dethrone the great adversary and all his false systems in the world, and set up 
his own kingdom. That was the third heaven to which the Apostle Paul was caught up in vision. 

"How was he caught up? He had a vision of the coming reign of Christ Jesus. This the Lord 
gave him in advance of the others. He says 'I knew not hardly whether I was in the body or in 
the spirit.' The Lord gave him that vision in order that he might know that when Christ comes 
he is going to reign, as he sets forth in other parts of his writings. 

"Now, then, again, he says, when the first martyr died he said: 'Lord, receive my spirit.' That is 
true; the word spirit occurs in the King James version, but if he will look in his Greek version it 
says: 'My breath of life.' God gave him breath of life. Now, he asked me to answer this 
question: 'In what sense can a man never die?' In this sense, that when a man is raised to 
perfection, so long as he obeys the Lord he will live, but he must be awakened and restored to 
perfect life. 'He that liveth and believeth on me shall never die.' That is not immortality at all. 
What does it mean? It means that all righteous creatures that are obedient to God and perfect 
shall live forever, but not immortal. If they should become unrighteous or disbelievers they 
would die. Then, he says there is no place in the Scriptures that says that spirit will be 
destroyed. I ask him: What about the devil himself? Isn't he to be destroyed? (Applause.) Yes, 
the apostle says in Hebrews 2:14 that Christ Jesus partook of flesh and blood that he might

 "Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the 
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it. 

MOSES AND BURNING BUSH. 

"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should 
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.' 

"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as 
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that, 
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the 
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection. 
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when 
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is 
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.' 

"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up? 
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth; 
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle 
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives 
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My 
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All 
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus 
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The 
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus 
Christ. 

ABSENCE FROM THE BODY. 

"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of 
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not 
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in 
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal 
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned 
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say, 
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this 
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave 
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My 
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord. 
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died? 

"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good 
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which 
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second 
coming of Christ. 

Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say 
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For 
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians. 
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be 
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than 
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be 
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the 
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and 
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he 
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not 
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and 
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so 
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His 
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him. 

THE THIRD HEAVEN. 

"He says St. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and therefore was living while he was 
dead. My answer to that is this: The apostle points out that there are three heavens and three 
earths. The first heaven and first earth passed away at the time of the flood, says the Apostle 
Peter; not the habitation of Jehovah, not the literal earth, but the Greek word says the kosmos, 
as my friend knows, means arrangement or the order of things. The first heaven was under the 
administration of angels, says the apostle. After the flood there has been another ecclesiastical 
system or order of things in the earth. The third heaven is what? The kingdom of the Lord Jesus 
Christ, who shall dethrone the great adversary and all his false systems in the world, and set up 
his own kingdom. That was the third heaven to which the Apostle Paul was caught up in vision. 

"How was he caught up? He had a vision of the coming reign of Christ Jesus. This the Lord 
gave him in advance of the others. He says 'I knew not hardly whether I was in the body or in 
the spirit.' The Lord gave him that vision in order that he might know that when Christ comes 
he is going to reign, as he sets forth in other parts of his writings. 

"Now, then, again, he says, when the first martyr died he said: 'Lord, receive my spirit.' That is 
true; the word spirit occurs in the King James version, but if he will look in his Greek version it 
says: 'My breath of life.' God gave him breath of life. Now, he asked me to answer this 
question: 'In what sense can a man never die?' In this sense, that when a man is raised to 
perfection, so long as he obeys the Lord he will live, but he must be awakened and restored to 
perfect life. 'He that liveth and believeth on me shall never die.' That is not immortality at all. 
What does it mean? It means that all righteous creatures that are obedient to God and perfect 
shall live forever, but not immortal. If they should become unrighteous or disbelievers they 
would die. Then, he says there is no place in the Scriptures that says that spirit will be 
destroyed. I ask him: What about the devil himself? Isn't he to be destroyed? (Applause.) Yes, 
the apostle says in Hebrews 2:14 that Christ Jesus partook of flesh and blood that he might destroy him that hath the power of death; that is, the devil. I am going to point out tomorrow 
how the devil is to be destroyed. 

THE SECOND DEATH. 

"Now, dear friends, he asks me the question, What is the second death. Revelations, twentieth 
chapter, fourteenth verse, says that death (and we are all in a dying condition) and hell, hades, 
oblivion are cast into the lake of fire. Gehenna is the Greek word used, meaning utter 
destruction. This is the second death; that is the scriptural definition of the word. The second 
death means complete annihilation. 

"There are only two minutes in which to answer all these questions. I will of necessity have to 
take the ones I can get to the quickest. 

"He says, I saw under the altar, (the altars are built on the ground) the souls of them that were 
slain, and they cried with loud voices! Everybody knows, who has read the book of Revelation, 
that it is a book of symbols. Was it living people there crying out? Certainly not. Doesn't the 
Scriptures speak of the blood of Abel crying out for vengeance? Did Abel's blood literally cry? 
No; but it was used in a poetic or symbolic sense. I haven't the time to explain this, but I merely 
call attention to show that that was not a living creature there crying out. 

"Now, dear friends, there are so many other points I would be glad to answer, but I only have 
half a minute in which to do it. 

"I hope you will all be here tomorrow night, dear friends, and I thank you very much for your 
kind attention."