REBUTTAL BY RUTHERFORD.
"I was somewhat surprised at my friend; for he said that no man has made much progress in
studying the Bible who would quote Job. He devoted a large part of his argument to Job, as the
record will show, for the stenographers have taken it. However, I didn't mention Job at all.
(Laughter.) The fact is that Brother Troy had prepared his speech, and he thought I was going
to mention Job and therefore he spoke about it. (Laughter.) How does it look for a minister to
repudiate the Bible? The Book of Job is in the Bible, and haven't we taken it as such? Surely so.
I stand by what the Bible says.
"Now then, Brother Troy said that, and then he quoted this from Job: 'Therefore have I uttered
that which I under-stand not. The thing is too wonderful for me.' Of course Job said that and the
Bible says (1 Peter 1:21), 'Holy men of old wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, and
not what they knew themselves. 'For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for
our learning.' (Romans 15:4.) But God said to the other -- to Job's friend, 'He has not spoken of
me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.' In other words, God said Job did not lie with
his mouth, and the other did. Now, then, notice this: Mathew 10:28 -- Brother Troy read part of
this text, but he didn't read all of it. He read 'Fear not them which are able to kill the body, but
are not able to kill the soul,' and stopped there. The balance of the verse reads, 'But fear him
who is able to destroy both soul and body.' (Applause.)
"Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it.
MOSES AND BURNING BUSH.
"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.'
"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that,
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection.
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.'
"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up?
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth;
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus
Christ.
ABSENCE FROM THE BODY.
"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say,
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord.
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died?
"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his "Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it.
MOSES AND BURNING BUSH.
"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.'
"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that,
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection.
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.'
"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up?
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth;
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus
Christ.
ABSENCE FROM THE BODY.
"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say,
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord.
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died?
"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second
coming of Christ.
Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians.
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him"Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it.
MOSES AND BURNING BUSH.
"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.'
"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that,
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection.
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.'
"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up?
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth;
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus
Christ.
ABSENCE FROM THE BODY.
"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say,
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord.
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died?
"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second
coming of Christ.
Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians.
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him.
THE THIRD HEAVEN.
"He says St. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and therefore was living while he was
dead. My answer to that is this: The apostle points out that there are three heavens and three
earths. The first heaven and first earth passed away at the time of the flood, says the Apostle
Peter; not the habitation of Jehovah, not the literal earth, but the Greek word says the kosmos,
as my friend knows, means arrangement or the order of things. The first heaven was under the
administration of angels, says the apostle. After the flood there has been another ecclesiastical
system or order of things in the earth. The third heaven is what? The kingdom of the Lord Jesus
Christ, who shall dethrone the great adversary and all his false systems in the world, and set up
his own kingdom. That was the third heaven to which the Apostle Paul was caught up in vision.
"How was he caught up? He had a vision of the coming reign of Christ Jesus. This the Lord
gave him in advance of the others. He says 'I knew not hardly whether I was in the body or in
the spirit.' The Lord gave him that vision in order that he might know that when Christ comes
he is going to reign, as he sets forth in other parts of his writings.
"Now, then, again, he says, when the first martyr died he said: 'Lord, receive my spirit.' That is
true; the word spirit occurs in the King James version, but if he will look in his Greek version it
says: 'My breath of life.' God gave him breath of life. Now, he asked me to answer this
question: 'In what sense can a man never die?' In this sense, that when a man is raised to
perfection, so long as he obeys the Lord he will live, but he must be awakened and restored to
perfect life. 'He that liveth and believeth on me shall never die.' That is not immortality at all.
What does it mean? It means that all righteous creatures that are obedient to God and perfect
shall live forever, but not immortal. If they should become unrighteous or disbelievers they
would die. Then, he says there is no place in the Scriptures that says that spirit will be
destroyed. I ask him: What about the devil himself? Isn't he to be destroyed? (Applause.) Yes,
the apostle says in Hebrews 2:14 that Christ Jesus partook of flesh and blood that he might
"Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it.
MOSES AND BURNING BUSH.
"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.'
"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that,
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection.
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.'
"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up?
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth;
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus
Christ.
ABSENCE FROM THE BODY.
"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say,
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord.
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died?
"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second
coming of Christ.
Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians.
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him.
THE THIRD HEAVEN.
"He says St. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and therefore was living while he was
dead. My answer to that is this: The apostle points out that there are three heavens and three
earths. The first heaven and first earth passed away at the time of the flood, says the Apostle
Peter; not the habitation of Jehovah, not the literal earth, but the Greek word says the kosmos,
as my friend knows, means arrangement or the order of things. The first heaven was under the
administration of angels, says the apostle. After the flood there has been another ecclesiastical
system or order of things in the earth. The third heaven is what? The kingdom of the Lord Jesus
Christ, who shall dethrone the great adversary and all his false systems in the world, and set up
his own kingdom. That was the third heaven to which the Apostle Paul was caught up in vision.
"How was he caught up? He had a vision of the coming reign of Christ Jesus. This the Lord
gave him in advance of the others. He says 'I knew not hardly whether I was in the body or in
the spirit.' The Lord gave him that vision in order that he might know that when Christ comes
he is going to reign, as he sets forth in other parts of his writings.
"Now, then, again, he says, when the first martyr died he said: 'Lord, receive my spirit.' That is
true; the word spirit occurs in the King James version, but if he will look in his Greek version it
says: 'My breath of life.' God gave him breath of life. Now, he asked me to answer this
question: 'In what sense can a man never die?' In this sense, that when a man is raised to
perfection, so long as he obeys the Lord he will live, but he must be awakened and restored to
perfect life. 'He that liveth and believeth on me shall never die.' That is not immortality at all.
What does it mean? It means that all righteous creatures that are obedient to God and perfect
shall live forever, but not immortal. If they should become unrighteous or disbelievers they
would die. Then, he says there is no place in the Scriptures that says that spirit will be
destroyed. I ask him: What about the devil himself? Isn't he to be destroyed? (Applause.) Yes,
the apostle says in Hebrews 2:14 that Christ Jesus partook of flesh and blood that he might destroy him that hath the power of death; that is, the devil. I am going to point out tomorrow
how the devil is to be destroyed.
THE SECOND DEATH.
"Now, dear friends, he asks me the question, What is the second death. Revelations, twentieth
chapter, fourteenth verse, says that death (and we are all in a dying condition) and hell, hades,
oblivion are cast into the lake of fire. Gehenna is the Greek word used, meaning utter
destruction. This is the second death; that is the scriptural definition of the word. The second
death means complete annihilation.
"There are only two minutes in which to answer all these questions. I will of necessity have to
take the ones I can get to the quickest.
"He says, I saw under the altar, (the altars are built on the ground) the souls of them that were
slain, and they cried with loud voices! Everybody knows, who has read the book of Revelation,
that it is a book of symbols. Was it living people there crying out? Certainly not. Doesn't the
Scriptures speak of the blood of Abel crying out for vengeance? Did Abel's blood literally cry?
No; but it was used in a poetic or symbolic sense. I haven't the time to explain this, but I merely
call attention to show that that was not a living creature there crying out.
"Now, dear friends, there are so many other points I would be glad to answer, but I only have
half a minute in which to do it.
"I hope you will all be here tomorrow night, dear friends, and I thank you very much for your
kind attention."
"I was somewhat surprised at my friend; for he said that no man has made much progress in
studying the Bible who would quote Job. He devoted a large part of his argument to Job, as the
record will show, for the stenographers have taken it. However, I didn't mention Job at all.
(Laughter.) The fact is that Brother Troy had prepared his speech, and he thought I was going
to mention Job and therefore he spoke about it. (Laughter.) How does it look for a minister to
repudiate the Bible? The Book of Job is in the Bible, and haven't we taken it as such? Surely so.
I stand by what the Bible says.
"Now then, Brother Troy said that, and then he quoted this from Job: 'Therefore have I uttered
that which I under-stand not. The thing is too wonderful for me.' Of course Job said that and the
Bible says (1 Peter 1:21), 'Holy men of old wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, and
not what they knew themselves. 'For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for
our learning.' (Romans 15:4.) But God said to the other -- to Job's friend, 'He has not spoken of
me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.' In other words, God said Job did not lie with
his mouth, and the other did. Now, then, notice this: Mathew 10:28 -- Brother Troy read part of
this text, but he didn't read all of it. He read 'Fear not them which are able to kill the body, but
are not able to kill the soul,' and stopped there. The balance of the verse reads, 'But fear him
who is able to destroy both soul and body.' (Applause.)
"Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it.
MOSES AND BURNING BUSH.
"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.'
"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that,
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection.
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.'
"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up?
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth;
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus
Christ.
ABSENCE FROM THE BODY.
"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say,
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord.
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died?
"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his "Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it.
MOSES AND BURNING BUSH.
"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.'
"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that,
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection.
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.'
"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up?
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth;
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus
Christ.
ABSENCE FROM THE BODY.
"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say,
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord.
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died?
"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second
coming of Christ.
Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians.
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him"Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it.
MOSES AND BURNING BUSH.
"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.'
"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that,
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection.
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.'
"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up?
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth;
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus
Christ.
ABSENCE FROM THE BODY.
"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say,
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord.
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died?
"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second
coming of Christ.
Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians.
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him.
THE THIRD HEAVEN.
"He says St. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and therefore was living while he was
dead. My answer to that is this: The apostle points out that there are three heavens and three
earths. The first heaven and first earth passed away at the time of the flood, says the Apostle
Peter; not the habitation of Jehovah, not the literal earth, but the Greek word says the kosmos,
as my friend knows, means arrangement or the order of things. The first heaven was under the
administration of angels, says the apostle. After the flood there has been another ecclesiastical
system or order of things in the earth. The third heaven is what? The kingdom of the Lord Jesus
Christ, who shall dethrone the great adversary and all his false systems in the world, and set up
his own kingdom. That was the third heaven to which the Apostle Paul was caught up in vision.
"How was he caught up? He had a vision of the coming reign of Christ Jesus. This the Lord
gave him in advance of the others. He says 'I knew not hardly whether I was in the body or in
the spirit.' The Lord gave him that vision in order that he might know that when Christ comes
he is going to reign, as he sets forth in other parts of his writings.
"Now, then, again, he says, when the first martyr died he said: 'Lord, receive my spirit.' That is
true; the word spirit occurs in the King James version, but if he will look in his Greek version it
says: 'My breath of life.' God gave him breath of life. Now, he asked me to answer this
question: 'In what sense can a man never die?' In this sense, that when a man is raised to
perfection, so long as he obeys the Lord he will live, but he must be awakened and restored to
perfect life. 'He that liveth and believeth on me shall never die.' That is not immortality at all.
What does it mean? It means that all righteous creatures that are obedient to God and perfect
shall live forever, but not immortal. If they should become unrighteous or disbelievers they
would die. Then, he says there is no place in the Scriptures that says that spirit will be
destroyed. I ask him: What about the devil himself? Isn't he to be destroyed? (Applause.) Yes,
the apostle says in Hebrews 2:14 that Christ Jesus partook of flesh and blood that he might
"Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it.
MOSES AND BURNING BUSH.
"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.'
"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that,
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection.
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.'
"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up?
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth;
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus
Christ.
ABSENCE FROM THE BODY.
"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say,
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord.
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died?
"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second
coming of Christ.
Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians.
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him.
THE THIRD HEAVEN.
"He says St. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and therefore was living while he was
dead. My answer to that is this: The apostle points out that there are three heavens and three
earths. The first heaven and first earth passed away at the time of the flood, says the Apostle
Peter; not the habitation of Jehovah, not the literal earth, but the Greek word says the kosmos,
as my friend knows, means arrangement or the order of things. The first heaven was under the
administration of angels, says the apostle. After the flood there has been another ecclesiastical
system or order of things in the earth. The third heaven is what? The kingdom of the Lord Jesus
Christ, who shall dethrone the great adversary and all his false systems in the world, and set up
his own kingdom. That was the third heaven to which the Apostle Paul was caught up in vision.
"How was he caught up? He had a vision of the coming reign of Christ Jesus. This the Lord
gave him in advance of the others. He says 'I knew not hardly whether I was in the body or in
the spirit.' The Lord gave him that vision in order that he might know that when Christ comes
he is going to reign, as he sets forth in other parts of his writings.
"Now, then, again, he says, when the first martyr died he said: 'Lord, receive my spirit.' That is
true; the word spirit occurs in the King James version, but if he will look in his Greek version it
says: 'My breath of life.' God gave him breath of life. Now, he asked me to answer this
question: 'In what sense can a man never die?' In this sense, that when a man is raised to
perfection, so long as he obeys the Lord he will live, but he must be awakened and restored to
perfect life. 'He that liveth and believeth on me shall never die.' That is not immortality at all.
What does it mean? It means that all righteous creatures that are obedient to God and perfect
shall live forever, but not immortal. If they should become unrighteous or disbelievers they
would die. Then, he says there is no place in the Scriptures that says that spirit will be
destroyed. I ask him: What about the devil himself? Isn't he to be destroyed? (Applause.) Yes,
the apostle says in Hebrews 2:14 that Christ Jesus partook of flesh and blood that he might destroy him that hath the power of death; that is, the devil. I am going to point out tomorrow
how the devil is to be destroyed.
THE SECOND DEATH.
"Now, dear friends, he asks me the question, What is the second death. Revelations, twentieth
chapter, fourteenth verse, says that death (and we are all in a dying condition) and hell, hades,
oblivion are cast into the lake of fire. Gehenna is the Greek word used, meaning utter
destruction. This is the second death; that is the scriptural definition of the word. The second
death means complete annihilation.
"There are only two minutes in which to answer all these questions. I will of necessity have to
take the ones I can get to the quickest.
"He says, I saw under the altar, (the altars are built on the ground) the souls of them that were
slain, and they cried with loud voices! Everybody knows, who has read the book of Revelation,
that it is a book of symbols. Was it living people there crying out? Certainly not. Doesn't the
Scriptures speak of the blood of Abel crying out for vengeance? Did Abel's blood literally cry?
No; but it was used in a poetic or symbolic sense. I haven't the time to explain this, but I merely
call attention to show that that was not a living creature there crying out.
"Now, dear friends, there are so many other points I would be glad to answer, but I only have
half a minute in which to do it.
"I hope you will all be here tomorrow night, dear friends, and I thank you very much for your
kind attention."
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