The Watchtower Society's commentary on idolatry.

IDOL, IDOLATRY;

An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.

The Hebrew terms used to refer to idols often highlighted the origin and inherent worthlessness of idols, or they were derogatory terms of contempt. Among these are words rendered “carved or graven image” (literally, something carved out); “molten statue, image, or idol” (literally, something cast or poured out); “horrible idol”; “vain idol” (literally, vanity); and “dungy idol.” “Idol” is the usual rendering of the Greek word eiʹdo·lon.

Not All Images Are Idols. God’s law not to form images (Ex 20:4, 5) did not rule out the making of all representations and statues. This is indicated by Jehovah’s later command to make two golden cherubs on the cover of the Ark and to embroider representations of cherubs on the inner tent covering of ten tent cloths for the tabernacle and the curtain separating the Holy from the Most Holy. (Ex 25:18; 26:1, 31, 33) Likewise, the interior of Solomon’s temple, the architectural plans for which were given to David by divine inspiration (1Ch 28:11, 12), was beautifully embellished with engraved carvings of cherubs, palm-tree figures, and blossoms. Two cherubs of oil-tree wood overlaid with gold stood in the Most Holy of that temple. (1Ki 6:23, 28, 29) The molten sea rested upon 12 copper bulls, and the sidewalls of the copper carriages for temple use were decorated with figures of lions, bulls, and cherubs. (1Ki 7:25, 28, 29) Twelve lions lined the steps leading up to Solomon’s throne.—2Ch 9:17-19.

These representations, however, were not idols for worship. Only the officiating priests saw the representations of the tabernacle interior and, later, of the temple interior. No one but the high priest entered the Most Holy, and that only on the Day of Atonement. (Heb 9:7) Thus there was no danger of the Israelites’ being ensnared into idolizing the golden cherubs in the sanctuary. These representations primarily served as a picture of the heavenly cherubs. (Compare Heb 9:23, 24.) That they were not to be venerated is evident from the fact that the angels themselves were not to be worshiped.—Col 2:18; Re 19:10; 22:8, 9.

Of course, there were times when images became idols, although not originally intended as objects of veneration. The copper serpent that Moses formed in the wilderness came to be worshiped, and therefore faithful King Hezekiah crushed it to pieces. (Nu 21:9; 2Ki 18:1, 4) The ephod made by Judge Gideon became “a snare” to him and to his household.—Jg 8:27.

Images as Aids in Worship. The Scriptures do not sanction the use of images as a means to address God in prayer. Such a practice runs counter to the principle that those seeking to serve Jehovah must worship him with spirit and truth. (Joh 4:24; 2Co 4:18; 5:6, 7) He tolerates no mixing of idolatrous practices with true worship, as is illustrated by his condemnation of calf worship, although the Israelites had attached his name thereto. (Ex 32:3-10) Jehovah does not share his glory with graven images.—Isa 42:8.

There is not a single instance in Scripture where faithful servants of Jehovah resorted to the use of visual aids to pray to God or engaged in a form of relative worship. Of course, some may cite Hebrews 11:21, which, according to the Catholic Douay Version, reads: “By faith Jacob, dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and adored the top of his rod.” Then in a footnote on this scripture it is held that Jacob paid relative honor and veneration to the top of Joseph’s rod, and the comment is made: “Some translators, who are no friends to this relative honour, have corrupted the text, by translating it: he worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.” However, rather than being a corruption of the text, as this footnote maintains, this latter rendering and comparable variants thereof are in agreement with the sense of the Hebrew text at Genesis 47:31 and have been adopted even by a number of Catholic translations, including The Jerusalem Bible.

Forms of Idolatry. Acts of idolatry referred to in the Bible included such revolting practices as ceremonial prostitution, child sacrifice, drunkenness, and self-laceration to the point of causing blood to flow. (1Ki 14:24; 18:28; Jer 19:3-5; Ho 4:13, 14; Am 2:8) Idols were venerated by partaking of food and drink in festivals or ceremonies in their honor (Ex 32:6; 1Co 8:10), by bowing and sacrificing to them, by song and dance before them, and even by a kiss. (Ex 32:8, 18, 19; 1Ki 19:18; Ho 13:2) Idolatry was also committed by arranging a table of food and drink for false gods (Isa 65:11), by making drink offerings, sacrificial cakes, and sacrificial smoke (Jer 7:18; 44:17), and by weeping in religious ceremony (Eze 8:14). Certain actions, such as tattooing the flesh, making cuttings upon the flesh, imposing baldness on the forehead, cutting the sidelocks, and destroying the extremity of the beard, were prohibited by the Law, possibly, at least in part, because of being linked with prevailing idolatrous practices of neighboring peoples.—Le 19:26-28; De 14:1.

Then there are the more subtle forms of idolatry. Covetousness is idolatry (Col 3:5), since the object of an individual’s cravings diverts affection from the Creator and thus, in effect, becomes an idol. Instead of serving Jehovah God in faithfulness, a person can become a slave to his belly, that is, to fleshly desire or appetite, and make this his god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) Since love for the Creator is demonstrated by obedience (1Jo 5:3), rebellion and pushing ahead presumptuously are comparable to acts of idolatry.—1Sa 15:22, 23.

Pre-Flood Idolatry. Idolatry had its beginning, not in the visible realm, but in the invisible. A glorious spirit creature developed the covetous desire to resemble the Most High. So strong was his desire that it alienated him from his God, Jehovah, and his idolatry caused him to rebel.—Job 1:6-11; 1Ti 3:6; compare Isa 14:12-14; Eze 28:13-15, 17.

Similarly, Eve constituted herself the first human idolater by coveting the forbidden fruit, this wrong desire leading her to disobey God’s command. By allowing selfish desire to rival his love for Jehovah and then by disobeying him, Adam likewise became guilty of idolatry.—Ge 3:6, 17.

Since the rebellion in Eden, only a minority of mankind have remained free from idolatry. During the lifetime of Adam’s grandson Enosh, men apparently practiced a form of idolatry. “At that time a start was made of calling on the name of Jehovah.” (Ge 4:26) But evidently this was no calling upon Jehovah in faith, something done by righteous Abel many years earlier and for which he suffered martyrdom at the hands of his brother Cain. (Ge 4:4, 5, 8) Apparently, what was started in the days of Enosh was a false form of worship in which Jehovah’s name was misused or improperly applied. Either men applied Jehovah’s name to themselves or to other men (through whom they pretended to approach God in worship), or else they applied the divine name to idol objects (as a visible, tangible aid in their attempt to worship the invisible God).

To what extent idolatry was practiced from the days of Enosh until the Flood, the Bible record does not reveal. The situation must have progressively deteriorated, because in Noah’s day “Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time.” Besides the inherited sinful inclination of man, the materialized angels, who had relations with the daughters of men, and the hybrid offspring of these unions, the Nephilim, exerted upon the world of that time a strong influence toward bad.—Ge 6:4, 5.

Idolatry in Patriarchal Times. Although the Flood of Noah’s day destroyed all human idolaters, idolatry began anew, spearheaded by Nimrod, “a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah.” (Ge 10:9) Doubtless under Nimrod’s direction, the building of Babel and its tower (likely a ziggurat for use in idolatrous worship) began. The plans of those builders were frustrated when Jehovah confused their language. No longer being able to understand one another, they gradually left off building the city and scattered. However, the idolatry that began at Babel did not end there. Wherever those builders went they carried their false religious concepts.—Ge 11:1-9; see GODS AND GODDESSES.

The next city mentioned in the Scriptures, Ur of the Chaldeans, like Babel, was not devoted to the worship of the true God, Jehovah. Archaeological diggings there have revealed that the patron deity of that city was the moon-god Sin. It was in Ur that Terah, the father of Abram (Abraham), resided. (Ge 11:27, 28) Living in the midst of idolatry, Terah may have engaged in it, as is indicated centuries later by Joshua’s words to the Israelites: “It was on the other side of the River [Euphrates] that your forefathers dwelt a long time ago, Terah the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, and they used to serve other gods.” (Jos 24:2) But Abraham displayed faith in the true God, Jehovah.

Wherever Abraham, and later his descendants, went they met up with idolatry, influenced by the original apostasy at Babel. So there was an ever-present danger of being contaminated by such idolatry. Even those related to Abraham had idols. Laban, who was the father-in-law of Abraham’s grandson Jacob, had teraphim, or family gods, in his possession. (Ge 31:19, 31, 32) Jacob himself found it necessary to instruct his household to put away all their foreign gods, and he hid the idols turned over to him. (Ge 35:2-4) Perhaps he disposed of them in this way so that none in his household might reuse the metal as something having special value on account of its previous idolatrous use. Whether Jacob initially melted or smashed the images is not stated.

Idolatry and God’s Covenant People. As Jehovah had indicated to Abraham, his descendants, the Israelites, became alien residents in a land not theirs, namely Egypt, and suffered affliction there. (Ge 15:13) In Egypt they came in contact with rank idolatry, for image making ran riot in that country. Many of the deities worshiped there were represented by animal heads, among them being the cat-headed Bast, the cow-headed Hathor, the falcon-headed Horus, the jackal-headed Anubis (PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 946), and the ibis-headed Thoth, to name but a few. Creatures of sea, air, and land were venerated, and at death “sacred” animals were mummified.

The Law that Jehovah gave to his people after liberating them from Egypt was explicitly directed against idolatrous practices so prevalent among the ancients. The second of the Ten Commandments expressly prohibited making for worship a carved image or a representation of anything in the heavens, on the earth, or in the waters. (Ex 20:4, 5; De 5:8, 9) In his final exhortations to the Israelites, Moses emphasized the impossibility of making an image of the true God and warned them to beware of the snare of idolatry. (De 4:15-19) To further safeguard the Israelites from becoming idolaters, they were commanded not to conclude any covenant with the pagan inhabitants of the land they were entering or to form marriage alliances with them, but to annihilate them. All existing appendages of idolatry—altars, sacred pillars, sacred poles, and graven images—were to be destroyed.—De 7:2-5.

Moses’ successor Joshua assembled all the tribes of Israel at Shechem and admonished them to remove the false gods and to serve Jehovah faithfully. The people agreed to do so and continued serving Jehovah during his lifetime and that of the older men who extended their days after Joshua. (Jos 24:14-16, 31) But thereafter wholesale apostasy set in. The people began worshiping Canaanite deities—Baal, Ashtoreth, and the sacred pole, or Asherah. Hence, Jehovah abandoned the Israelites into the hands of their enemies. However, when they repented, he mercifully raised up judges to deliver them.—Jg 2:11-19; 3:7; see ASHTORETH; BAAL No. 4; SACRED PILLAR; SACRED POLE.

Under the rule of the kings. During the reigns of Israel’s first king, Saul, of his son Ish-bosheth, and of David, there is no mention of large-scale idolatry being engaged in by the Israelites. Nevertheless, there are indications that idolatry lingered on in the kingdom. Saul’s own daughter, Michal, for instance, had a teraphim image in her possession. (1Sa 19:13; see TERAPHIM.) It was not until the latter part of the reign of David’s son Solomon, however, that outright idolatry came to be practiced, the monarch himself, under the influence of his many foreign wives, giving the impetus to idolatry by sanctioning it. High places were built to Ashtoreth, Chemosh, and Milcom, or Molech. The people in general succumbed to false worship and began bowing down to these idol gods.—1Ki 11:3-8, 33; 2Ki 23:13; see CHEMOSH; MOLECH.

On account of this idolatry, Jehovah ripped ten tribes away from Solomon’s son Rehoboam and gave these to Jeroboam. (1Ki 11:31-35; 12:19-24) Although assured that his kingdom would remain firm if he continued serving Jehovah in faithfulness, Jeroboam, on becoming king, instituted calf worship, fearing that the people would revolt against his rule if they continued going to Jerusalem for worship. (1Ki 11:38; 12:26-33) Idolatrous calf worship continued all the days the ten-tribe kingdom existed, with Tyrian Baalism being introduced during Ahab’s reign. (1Ki 16:30-33) Not all apostatized, however. While Ahab reigned, there still was a remnant of 7,000 who had neither bent the knee to nor kissed Baal, and this at a time when Jehovah’s prophets were being killed with the sword, doubtless at the instigation of Ahab’s wife Jezebel.—1Ki 19:1, 2, 14, 18; Ro 11:4; see CALF (Calf Worship).

With the exception of Jehu’s eradication of Baal worship (2Ki 10:20-28), there is no record of any religious reform being undertaken by a monarch of the ten-tribe kingdom. To the prophets repeatedly sent by Jehovah, the people and rulers of the northern kingdom gave no heed, so that finally the Almighty abandoned them into the hands of the Assyrians because of their sordid record of idolatry.—2Ki 17:7-23.

In the kingdom of Judah, the situation was not much different, aside from the reforms carried out by certain kings. Whereas a divided kingdom had come about as a direct result of idolatry, Solomon’s son Rehoboam did not take to heart Jehovah’s discipline and shun idolatry. As soon as his position was secure, he and all Judah with him apostatized. (2Ch 12:1) The people built high places, equipping these with sacred pillars and sacred poles, and engaged in ceremonial prostitution. (1Ki 14:23, 24) Although Abijam (Abijah) expressed faith in Jehovah at the time he warred against Jeroboam and was blessed with victory, to a large extent he imitated the sinful course of his father and predecessor on the throne, Rehoboam.—1Ki 15:1, 3; 2Ch 13:3-18.

The next two Judean kings, Asa and Jehoshaphat, served Jehovah in faithfulness and endeavored to rid the kingdom of idolatry. But Judah was so steeped in worship at high places that, despite the efforts of both of these kings to destroy them, the high places seem to have persisted secretly or they cropped up again.—1Ki 15:11-14; 22:42, 43; 2Ch 14:2-5; 17:5, 6; 20:31-33.

The reign of Judah’s next king, Jehoram, commenced with bloodshed and began a new chapter in Judah’s idolatry. This is attributed to his having idolatrous Ahab’s daughter, Athaliah, as wife. (2Ch 21:1-4, 6, 11) The queen mother Athaliah also proved to be the counselor to Jehoram’s son Ahaziah. Hence, during the rule of Ahaziah and that of the usurper Athaliah, idolatry continued with the approval of the crown.—2Ch 22:1-3, 12.

Early in the reign of Jehoash, following the execution of Athaliah, there was a restoration of true worship. But upon the death of High Priest Jehoiada, there was a return to idol worship at the instigation of Judah’s princes. (2Ki 12:2, 3; 2Ch 24:17, 18) Jehovah therefore abandoned the Judean forces into the hands of the invading Syrians, and Jehoash was murdered by his own servants.—2Ch 24:23-25.

Undoubtedly the execution of God’s judgment upon Judah and the violent death of Amaziah’s father Jehoash made a deep impression upon Amaziah, so that he proceeded at first to do what was right in Jehovah’s eyes. (2Ch 25:1-4) But after defeating the Edomites and taking their images, he began serving the gods of his vanquished foes. (2Ch 25:14) Retribution came when Judah was defeated by the ten-tribe kingdom and later when Amaziah was murdered by conspirators. (2Ch 25:20-24, 27) Although Azariah (Uzziah) and his son Jotham are reported generally to have done what was right in Jehovah’s eyes, their subjects persisted in idolatry at the high places.—2Ki 15:1-4, 32-35; 2Ch 26:3, 4, 16-18; 27:1, 2.

During the kingship of Jotham’s son Ahaz, Judah’s religious state reached a new low. Ahaz began to practice idolatry on a scale never known before in Judah; he was the first-reported Judean king to have sacrificed his offspring in the fire as a false religious act. (2Ki 16:1-4; 2Ch 28:1-4) Jehovah chastised Judah by means of defeats at the hands of their enemies. Ahaz, instead of repenting, concluded that the gods of the kings of Syria were giving them the victory and therefore decided to sacrifice to these deities so that they might also help him. (2Ch 28:5, 23) Furthermore, the doors of Jehovah’s temple were closed, and its utensils were cut to pieces.—2Ch 28:24.

While Ahaz did not benefit from Jehovah’s discipline, his son Hezekiah did. (2Ch 29:1, 5-11) In the very first year of his becoming king, Hezekiah restored the true worship of Jehovah. (2Ch 29:3) His reign saw the destruction of appendages of false worship not only in Judah and Benjamin but also in Ephraim and Manasseh.—2Ch 31:1.

But Hezekiah’s own son Manasseh completely revived idolatry. (2Ki 21:1-7; 2Ch 33:1-7) As to the reasons for this, the Bible record is silent. Manasseh, who began ruling as a 12-year-old, may have been wrongly directed initially by counselors and princes not exclusively devoted to Jehovah’s service. Unlike Ahaz, though, Manasseh, as a captive in Babylon, repented upon receiving this severe discipline from Jehovah and undertook reforms upon returning to Jerusalem. (2Ch 33:10-16) His son Amon, however, reverted to sacrificing to the graven images.—2Ch 33:21-24.

Next came Josiah’s rule and a thorough eradication of idolatry in Judah. The sites of idolatrous worship were desecrated there and even in the cities of Samaria. The foreign-god priests and those making sacrificial smoke to Baal, as well as to the sun, the moon, the constellations of the zodiac, and all the army of the heavens, were put out of business. (2Ki 23:4-27; 2Ch 34:1-5) Still this large-scale campaign against idolatry did not effect permanent reform. The last four Judean kings, Jehoahaz, Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin, and Zedekiah, persisted in idolatry.—2Ki 23:31, 32, 36, 37; 24:8, 9, 18, 19; see ASTROLOGERS; HIGH PLACES; ZODIAC.

The references to idolatry in the writings of the prophets further cast light on what occurred during the last years of the kingdom of Judah. Sites of idolatry, ceremonial prostitution, and child sacrifice continued to exist. (Jer 3:6; 17:1-3; 19:2-5; 32:29, 35; Eze 6:3, 4) Even Levites were guilty of practicing idolatry. (Eze 44:10, 12, 13) Ezekiel, transported in vision to Jerusalem’s temple, there saw a detestable idol, “the symbol of jealousy,” and the veneration of representations of creeping things and loathsome beasts, as well as the according of reverence to the false god Tammuz and the sun.—Eze 8:3, 7-16.

Despite the fact that the Israelites adored idols to the point of sacrificing their own children, they carried on a semblance of worshiping Jehovah and reasoned that no calamity would befall them. (Jer 7:4, 8-12; Eze 23:36-39) So empty-headed had the people in general become by reason of their pursuit of idolatry that when calamity did come and Jerusalem was desolated by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E., in fulfillment of Jehovah’s word, they attributed it to their failure to make sacrificial smoke and drink offerings to the “queen of the heavens.”—Jer 44:15-18; see QUEEN OF THE HEAVENS.

Why Israel Turned to Idolatry. There were a number of factors that caused so many Israelites repeatedly to abandon true worship. Being one of the works of the flesh, idolatry appealed to the desires of the flesh. (Ga 5:19-21) Once settled in the Promised Land, the Israelites may have observed their pagan neighbors, whom they had failed to drive out entirely, having good success with their crops by reason of longer experience in working the land. Likely many made inquiry and heeded the advice of their Canaanite neighbors as to what was needed to please the Baal, or “owner,” of each piece of land.—Ps 106:34-39.

Forming marriage alliances with idolaters was another inducement to apostatize. (Jg 3:5, 6) The unrestrained sexual indulgence associated with idolatry proved to be no little temptation. At Shittim on the Plains of Moab, for instance, thousands of Israelites yielded to immorality and engaged in false worship. (Nu 22:1; 25:1-3) To some, being able to give way to unrestrained drinking at the sanctuaries of false gods may have been tempting.—Am 2:8.

Then there was the attraction of supposedly learning what the future had in store, this stemming from a desire to be assured that all would go well. Examples of this are Saul’s consulting a spirit medium and Ahaziah’s sending to inquire of Baal-zebub the god of Ekron.—1Sa 28:6-11; 2Ki 1:2, 3.

The Folly of Idol Worship. Time and again the Scriptures call attention to the foolishness of relying on gods of wood, stone, or metal. Isaiah describes the manufacture of idols and shows the stupidity of a person who uses part of the wood of a tree to cook his food and to warm himself and then makes the remainder into a god to whom he looks for aid. (Isa 44:9-20) In the day of Jehovah’s fury, wrote Isaiah, false worshipers would throw their worthless idols to the shrewmice and to the bats. (Isa 2:19-21) “Woe to the one saying to the piece of wood: ‘O do awake!’ to a dumb stone: ‘O wake up!’” (Hab 2:19) Those making dumb idols will become just like them, that is, lifeless.—Ps 115:4-8; 135:15-18; see Re 9:20.

Viewpoint Toward Idolatry. Faithful servants of Jehovah have always regarded idols with abhorrence. In Scripture, false gods and idols are repeatedly referred to in contemptible terms, as being valueless (1Ch 16:26; Ps 96:5; 97:7), horrible (1Ki 15:13; 2Ch 15:16), shameful (Jer 11:13; Ho 9:10), detestable (Eze 16:36, 37), and disgusting (Eze 37:23). Often mention is made of “dungy idols,” this expression being a rendering of the Hebrew word gil·lu·limʹ, which is related to a word meaning “dung.” (1Ki 14:10; Zep 1:17) This term of contempt, first appearing at Leviticus 26:30, is found nearly 40 times in the book of Ezekiel alone, beginning with chapter 6, verse 4.

Faithful Job recognized that even if his heart became enticed in secrecy at beholding heavenly bodies such as the moon and his ‘hand proceeded to kiss his mouth’ (apparently alluding to throwing a kiss with the hand in an idolatrous practice), this would have constituted a denial of God, hence idolatry. (Job 31:26-28; compare De 4:15, 19.) With reference to a practicer of righteousness, Jehovah said through the prophet Ezekiel, “His eyes he did not raise to the dungy idols of the house of Israel,” that is, to offer supplication to them or in expectation of help from them.—Eze 18:5, 6.

Another fine example of shunning idolatry was that of the three Hebrews, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who, although threatened with death in the fiery furnace, refused to bow before the image of gold erected by King Nebuchadnezzar in the Plain of Dura.—Da 3.

The early Christians heeded the inspired counsel: “Flee from idolatry” (1Co 10:14), and image makers viewed Christianity as a threat to their profitable business. (Ac 19:23-27) As testified to by secular historians, remaining free from idolatry often placed Christians living in the Roman Empire in a position similar to that of the three Hebrews. Acknowledging the divine character of the emperor as head of the state by offering a pinch of incense could have spared such Christians from death, but few compromised. Those early Christians fully appreciated that once they turned away from idols to serve the true God (1Th 1:9), a return to idolatry would mean their being debarred from the New Jerusalem and their losing out on the prize of life.—Re 21:8; 22:14, 15.


Servants of Jehovah must guard themselves from idols (1Jo 5:21), even today. It was foretold that great pressures would be brought to bear against all the inhabitants of the earth to worship the symbolic “wild beast” and its “image.” None who persist in such idolatrous worship will receive God’s gift of life everlasting. “Here is where it means endurance for the holy ones.”—Re 13:15-17; 14:9-12; 

Skeptic:Old CW iconoclast;New CW gatekeeper.

"Skeptic": A Sadly Abused Term
David Klinghoffer February 28, 2012 5:37 PM

Political philosopher John Gray is, as our friend James Barham describes him,

impossible to classify according to our ordinary categories. He is obviously no believer. It is not even clear he is really a friend of traditional theistic religion. But he is even more opposed to the religious pretensions of science.
James points out this great passage from Gray's 2007 book Straw Dogs:
[S]cience alone has the power to silence heretics. Today it is the only institution that can claim authority. Like the Church in the past, it has the power to destroy, or marginalise, independent thinkers....In fact, science does not yield any fixed picture of things, but by censoring thinkers who stray too far from current orthodoxies it preserves the comforting illusion of a single established worldview. From the standpoint of anyone who values freedom of thought, this may be unfortunate, but it is undoubtedly the chief source of science's appeal. For us, science is a refuge from uncertainty, promising -- and in some measure delivering -- the miracle of freedom from thought; while churches have become sanctuaries for doubt. (p. 19)
Ain't it true? This makes me think of how, in the hands of Darwinists and other enforcers, the word "skeptic" has come to be so widely abused lately, as to designate the exact opposite of what it should seem to mean: not people who doubt but people who insist on the absolute truth of their beliefs, mock the beliefs of others, and try to silence dissenters. If you ever visit the Why Evolution Is True blog, you may recall Jerry Coyne's shock to discover that Alex Tsakiris of Skeptico was not a lockstep orthodox believer in pseudo-skeptic Jerry Coyne's litany of Darwinist beliefs.

What I hadn't really recognized clearly is the extent to which, as Gray points out, "faith communities," so called, in fact nurture today's genuine skeptics. But now that he says it, it's obvious really.

Even ancient brains doubt Darwin

Contrary to claims, ancient brains can fossilize:

Some have. And they are said to “turn paleontology on its head.”

F. protensa is 520 mya or so. (They had brains back then?)

From Eurekalert:

Science has long dictated that brains don’t fossilize, so when Nicholas Strausfeld co-authored the first ever report of a fossilized brain in a 2012 edition of Nature, it was met with “a lot of flack.”

…

His latest paper in Current Biology addresses these doubts head-on, with definitive evidence that, indeed, brains do fossilize.

…

The only way to become fossilized is, first, to get rapidly buried. Hungry scavengers can’t eat a carcass if it’s buried, and as long as the water is anoxic enough – that is, lacking in oxygen – a buried creature’s tissues evade consumption by bacteria as well. Strausfeld and his collaborators suspect F. protensa was buried by rapid, underwater mudslides, a scenario they experimentally recreated by burying sandworms and cockroaches in mud.

This is only step one. Step two, explained Strausfeld, is where most brains would fail: Withstanding the pressure from being rapidly buried under thick, heavy mud.





To have been able to do this, the F. protensa nervous system must have been remarkably dense. In fact, tissues of nervous systems, including brains, are densest in living arthropods. As a small, tightly packed cellular network of fats and proteins, the brain and central nervous system could pass step two, just as did the sandworm and cockroach brains in Strausfeld’s lab.

What the fossil brains turn up should be interesting. Especially in view of this:


Similarly, a recently discovered 425-million-year-old crustacean showed no significant changes in internal body parts, compared to present-day specimens. One researcher called it “a demonstration of unbelievable stability.” But the stability is only unbelievable if we start with Darwin’s assumption that “natural selection is daily and hourly scrutinizing, throughout the world, every variation, even the slightest.” Apparently not.

Are the dead really dead?: pros II

REBUTTAL BY RUTHERFORD. 

"I was somewhat surprised at my friend; for he said that no man has made much progress in 
studying the Bible who would quote Job. He devoted a large part of his argument to Job, as the 
record will show, for the stenographers have taken it. However, I didn't mention Job at all. 
(Laughter.) The fact is that Brother Troy had prepared his speech, and he thought I was going 
to mention Job and therefore he spoke about it. (Laughter.) How does it look for a minister to 
repudiate the Bible? The Book of Job is in the Bible, and haven't we taken it as such? Surely so. 
I stand by what the Bible says. 

"Now then, Brother Troy said that, and then he quoted this from Job: 'Therefore have I uttered 
that which I under-stand not. The thing is too wonderful for me.' Of course Job said that and the 
Bible says (1 Peter 1:21), 'Holy men of old wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, and 
not what they knew themselves. 'For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for 
our learning.' (Romans 15:4.) But God said to the other -- to Job's friend, 'He has not spoken of 
me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.' In other words, God said Job did not lie with 
his mouth, and the other did. Now, then, notice this: Mathew 10:28 -- Brother Troy read part of 
this text, but he didn't read all of it. He read 'Fear not them which are able to kill the body, but 
are not able to kill the soul,' and stopped there. The balance of the verse reads, 'But fear him 
who is able to destroy both soul and body.' (Applause.)
 "Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the 
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it. 

MOSES AND BURNING BUSH. 

"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should 
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.' 

"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as 
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that, 
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the 
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection. 
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when 
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is 
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.' 

"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up? 
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth; 
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle 
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives 
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My 
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All 
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus 
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The 
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus 
Christ. 

ABSENCE FROM THE BODY. 

"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of 
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not 
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in 
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal 
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned 
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say, 
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this 
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave 
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My 
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord. 
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died? 

"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good 
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which 
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his "Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the 
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it. 

MOSES AND BURNING BUSH. 

"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should 
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.' 

"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as 
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that, 
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the 
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection. 
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when 
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is 
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.' 

"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up? 
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth; 
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle 
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives 
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My 
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All 
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus 
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The 
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus 
Christ. 

ABSENCE FROM THE BODY. 

"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of 
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not 
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in 
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal 
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned 
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say, 
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this 
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave 
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My 
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord. 
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died? 

"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good 
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which 
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second 
coming of Christ. 

Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say 
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For 
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians. 
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be 
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than 
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be 
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the 
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and 
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he 
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not 
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and 
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so 
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His 
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him"Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the 
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it. 

MOSES AND BURNING BUSH. 

"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should 
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.' 

"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as 
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that, 
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the 
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection. 
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when 
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is 
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.' 

"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up? 
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth; 
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle 
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives 
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My 
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All 
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus 
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The 
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus 
Christ. 

ABSENCE FROM THE BODY. 

"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of 
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not 
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in 
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal 
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned 
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say, 
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this 
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave 
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My 
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord. 
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died? 

"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good 
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which 
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second 
coming of Christ. 

Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say 
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For 
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians. 
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be 
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than 
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be 
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the 
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and 
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he 
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not 
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and 
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so 
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His 
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him. 

THE THIRD HEAVEN. 

"He says St. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and therefore was living while he was 
dead. My answer to that is this: The apostle points out that there are three heavens and three 
earths. The first heaven and first earth passed away at the time of the flood, says the Apostle 
Peter; not the habitation of Jehovah, not the literal earth, but the Greek word says the kosmos, 
as my friend knows, means arrangement or the order of things. The first heaven was under the 
administration of angels, says the apostle. After the flood there has been another ecclesiastical 
system or order of things in the earth. The third heaven is what? The kingdom of the Lord Jesus 
Christ, who shall dethrone the great adversary and all his false systems in the world, and set up 
his own kingdom. That was the third heaven to which the Apostle Paul was caught up in vision. 

"How was he caught up? He had a vision of the coming reign of Christ Jesus. This the Lord 
gave him in advance of the others. He says 'I knew not hardly whether I was in the body or in 
the spirit.' The Lord gave him that vision in order that he might know that when Christ comes 
he is going to reign, as he sets forth in other parts of his writings. 

"Now, then, again, he says, when the first martyr died he said: 'Lord, receive my spirit.' That is 
true; the word spirit occurs in the King James version, but if he will look in his Greek version it 
says: 'My breath of life.' God gave him breath of life. Now, he asked me to answer this 
question: 'In what sense can a man never die?' In this sense, that when a man is raised to 
perfection, so long as he obeys the Lord he will live, but he must be awakened and restored to 
perfect life. 'He that liveth and believeth on me shall never die.' That is not immortality at all. 
What does it mean? It means that all righteous creatures that are obedient to God and perfect 
shall live forever, but not immortal. If they should become unrighteous or disbelievers they 
would die. Then, he says there is no place in the Scriptures that says that spirit will be 
destroyed. I ask him: What about the devil himself? Isn't he to be destroyed? (Applause.) Yes, 
the apostle says in Hebrews 2:14 that Christ Jesus partook of flesh and blood that he might

 "Brother Troy says I should take a course in Bible interpretation. Now, brother, if that is the 
kind of Bible interpretation that you teach, please excuse me -- I don't want any of it. 

MOSES AND BURNING BUSH. 

"Now, he misquoted again. In 1 Corinthians 15:20, he said Christ is the first one that should 
arise from the dead. Paul says, 'Christ is the first fruits of them that slept.' 

"Now I want to take up some of the other points that he made and get to them as quickly as 
possible. For instance, about Moses and the burning bush. I did not have time to anticipate that, 
but I knew he was going to cite that Scripture. The Sadducees opposed the doctrine of the 
resurrection. Jesus began to argue with them to show that the Bible does teach a resurrection. 
(Luke 20:37, 38.) He said, 'Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when 
he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is 
not a God of the dead, but of the living; for all live unto him.' 

"How foolish it would have been for the Lord Jesus to say that the living would be raised up? 
Why didn't he say that? The Lord Jesus was pointing out here that the dead will come forth; 
that Moses and Elijah and all the prophets were dead but God was speaking as the Apostle 
Paul, in Romans 4:17, says 'Of things that shall be as though they were.' The whole race lives 
unto God in the sense that the whole human race sleeps in Jesus awaiting the resurrection. My 
friend Troy says that the Christians sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, says, 'All 
Christians are dead In Christ.' The world sleeps in Jesus in the sense that the blood of Jesus 
bought the whole world. But when we become Christians we come into the body of Christ. The 
world is not coming into Christ. The world will be brought forth in due time by the Lord Jesus 
Christ. 

ABSENCE FROM THE BODY. 

"Now, with reference to absence from the body, present with the Lord. He did not read all of 
that Scripture, either. Here the Apostle Paul says -- he was addressing this to Christians and not 
to the world, 'We know that this earthly body must be dissolved. We have a habitation in 
heaven not made with hands.' Brother Troy would say that he was talking about this old mortal 
body. Paul said he was to have a heavenly spirit body, not this one, for in this he groaned 
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with his house from heaven. We are content, I say, 
willing, rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. As long as I am in this 
old body I am absent from the Lord, as any other Christian is. If I were dead in the grave 
waiting for the resurrection I would still be absent from the Lord, but what St. Paul says is 'My 
great desire is to be clothed upon with my heavenly body that I might then be with the Lord. 
When was he going to get that? As soon as he died? 

"The apostle wrote to Timothy, in Second Timothy, 7 and 8, saying, 'I have fought the good 
fight: I have kept the faith; henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which 
the righteous judge shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but to all them who love his appearing,' thus showing that the apostle did not expect to be resurrected until the second 
coming of Christ. 

Again, my friend Troy quotes from Philippians 5:21 and 22, and makes the Apostle Paul say 
that he was in a strait between the two -- didn't know whether to live or die. Paul said this: 'For 
me to live is Christ, but to die is gain.' St. Paul was in prison. He was writing to the Philippians. 
He says, 'For me to live is to be used as a witness for Christ, but to die means gain' -- to be 
released from these bonds, from these shackles. But there is a third thing that I desire more than 
either of the other two. I am in a strait betwixt the two. I don't know whether I would better be 
dead or whether I would better live in this prison and teach the truth. But the third thing was the 
one St. Paul wanted, and what was that? Our King James version reads, 'I desire to depart and 
be with Christ,' and Brother Troy knows it's true if he would look at any other translation -- he 
knows from looking at the Greek lexicon that the Greek word here translated 'depart' does not 
mean depart, and there is no scholar on earth who will stand before an intelligent audience and 
tell them it does. Analouisia is the Greek word. It means what? -- returning -- and is so 
translated in Luke 12:36. St. Paul says: 'It is my great desire for the returning of the Lord.' His 
desire was for the returning of the Lord Jesus, that he might be with him. 

THE THIRD HEAVEN. 

"He says St. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and therefore was living while he was 
dead. My answer to that is this: The apostle points out that there are three heavens and three 
earths. The first heaven and first earth passed away at the time of the flood, says the Apostle 
Peter; not the habitation of Jehovah, not the literal earth, but the Greek word says the kosmos, 
as my friend knows, means arrangement or the order of things. The first heaven was under the 
administration of angels, says the apostle. After the flood there has been another ecclesiastical 
system or order of things in the earth. The third heaven is what? The kingdom of the Lord Jesus 
Christ, who shall dethrone the great adversary and all his false systems in the world, and set up 
his own kingdom. That was the third heaven to which the Apostle Paul was caught up in vision. 

"How was he caught up? He had a vision of the coming reign of Christ Jesus. This the Lord 
gave him in advance of the others. He says 'I knew not hardly whether I was in the body or in 
the spirit.' The Lord gave him that vision in order that he might know that when Christ comes 
he is going to reign, as he sets forth in other parts of his writings. 

"Now, then, again, he says, when the first martyr died he said: 'Lord, receive my spirit.' That is 
true; the word spirit occurs in the King James version, but if he will look in his Greek version it 
says: 'My breath of life.' God gave him breath of life. Now, he asked me to answer this 
question: 'In what sense can a man never die?' In this sense, that when a man is raised to 
perfection, so long as he obeys the Lord he will live, but he must be awakened and restored to 
perfect life. 'He that liveth and believeth on me shall never die.' That is not immortality at all. 
What does it mean? It means that all righteous creatures that are obedient to God and perfect 
shall live forever, but not immortal. If they should become unrighteous or disbelievers they 
would die. Then, he says there is no place in the Scriptures that says that spirit will be 
destroyed. I ask him: What about the devil himself? Isn't he to be destroyed? (Applause.) Yes, 
the apostle says in Hebrews 2:14 that Christ Jesus partook of flesh and blood that he might destroy him that hath the power of death; that is, the devil. I am going to point out tomorrow 
how the devil is to be destroyed. 

THE SECOND DEATH. 

"Now, dear friends, he asks me the question, What is the second death. Revelations, twentieth 
chapter, fourteenth verse, says that death (and we are all in a dying condition) and hell, hades, 
oblivion are cast into the lake of fire. Gehenna is the Greek word used, meaning utter 
destruction. This is the second death; that is the scriptural definition of the word. The second 
death means complete annihilation. 

"There are only two minutes in which to answer all these questions. I will of necessity have to 
take the ones I can get to the quickest. 

"He says, I saw under the altar, (the altars are built on the ground) the souls of them that were 
slain, and they cried with loud voices! Everybody knows, who has read the book of Revelation, 
that it is a book of symbols. Was it living people there crying out? Certainly not. Doesn't the 
Scriptures speak of the blood of Abel crying out for vengeance? Did Abel's blood literally cry? 
No; but it was used in a poetic or symbolic sense. I haven't the time to explain this, but I merely 
call attention to show that that was not a living creature there crying out. 

"Now, dear friends, there are so many other points I would be glad to answer, but I only have 
half a minute in which to do it. 

"I hope you will all be here tomorrow night, dear friends, and I thank you very much for your 
kind attention."

Are the dead really dead?:pros.

Brother Rutherford's opening salvo of the Rutherford Troy debate.


HERE IS RUTHERFORD'S OPENING ARGUMENT.

Mr. Rutherford said:

"Mr. Chairman, I am glad to see you in such a happy mood. And that is the result of having a
happy chairman. We chose our good friend here because he has a happy vein. I hope we will all
keep up this good period of happiness and kind feeling towards each other as we progress
through this discussion.

"Preliminary to the discussion of the proposition read, it is due to you and to my opponent for
me to say that I did not seek this debate, nor did I run away from it when it came to me. I am
quite certain that my opponent did not seek it. I think some of our friends arranged it. I am not
here for the purpose of seeking notoriety or advertisement. I am not here for the purpose of
seeking money, because I do not expect to receive any. You know, we are not going to take up
any collection.

"I am not here for the purpose of getting some one to join something, because I have joined
nothing myself.

"I believe the time in man's history has been reached when the Bible is due to be understood,
and may be understood by those who seek knowledge in God's appointed way. Therefore, my
sole purpose here is to induce others to study more carefully the Bible, believing, as I do, that it
solves all the questions that are perplexing to honest-hearted men. I hope this debate may result
beneficially to those who attend. It will so result to everyone who, with open and unbiased
mind, honestly seeks the truth.

"In these four debates, I purpose, by God's grace, to point out that Jehovah has a great plan
which he is working out in an orderly way; that the Bible discloses this plan, and that the
consecrated child of God can grasp and understand it if he applies his mind and heart to the
study thereof; that this plan, when worked out, will result in great blessings to everyone of the
human race who loves right and hates wrong. In this hour of great distress and sorrow upon the
peoples and nations of the earth, God's plan, as set forth in the Bible, is the balm that will
soothe and comfort every sorrowful and penitent heart, hence the importance to all to
understand it. To aid men in reaching an understanding of his plan as set forth in the Bible, is
my desire. I have no selfish purpose to accomplish. I care not whether a man be a Catholic or
Protestant, Jew or Gentile, bond or free, if I can be of any aid to him, or turn his mind to an
investigation of these great truths, then I shall be glad.

"By reference to our agreement, it is observed that my opponent and myself have limited
ourselves to the Bible as authority upon the questions we shall here discuss. I am glad this is
true. The Bible is God-made; other authorities are man-made.

PROPOSITION.

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and
the moment of awakening to the resurrection.

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not
affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find:

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and
continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious.

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of
necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the
opposite of sleep is to be awake and

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not
conscious.

DEFINITIONS.

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death.

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will
be conceded by my opponent.

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges.

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased
to perform their functions.

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am
going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct
ones.

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or
mental operations; possessing knowledge.

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of
mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything.

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument.PROPOSITION.

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and
the moment of awakening to the resurrection.

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not
affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find:

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and
continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious.

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of
necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the
opposite of sleep is to be awake and

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not
conscious.

DEFINITIONS.

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death.

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will
be conceded by my opponent.

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges.

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased
to perform their functions.

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am
going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct
ones.

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or
mental operations; possessing knowledge.

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of
mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything.

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument.
 WHAT IS MAN?

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is
the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being,
or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal?

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and
soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like
other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and
implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever,
and is always conscious.

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal,
because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A
child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception,
according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just
conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on
earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or
election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The
creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'.
(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings.

BIBLE ANSWER.

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.)
Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.)
Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1
Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.'
(1 Corinthians 15:46.)

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is
composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times
spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the
breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the
word 'being.'

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from
the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is
the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely.

THE SOUL.

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.)
 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious
when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess
consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the
creature, the man.

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of
animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is
applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men
of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the
beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all
go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing
befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man
hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.)

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will
my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death?

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man
has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that
thing!
 PROPOSITION.

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and
the moment of awakening to the resurrection.

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not
affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find:

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and
continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious.

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of
necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the
opposite of sleep is to be awake and

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not
conscious.

DEFINITIONS.

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death.

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will
be conceded by my opponent.

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges.

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased
to perform their functions.

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am
going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct
ones.

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or
mental operations; possessing knowledge.

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of
mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything.

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument.
 WHAT IS MAN?

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is
the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being,
or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal?

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and
soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like
other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and
implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever,
and is always conscious.

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal,
because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A
child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception,
according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just
conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on
earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or
election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The
creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'.
(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings.

BIBLE ANSWER.

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.)
Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.)
Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1
Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.'
(1 Corinthians 15:46.)

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is
composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times
spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the
breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the
word 'being.'

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from
the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is
the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely.

THE SOUL.

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.)
 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious
when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess
consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the
creature, the man.

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of
animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is
applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men
of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the
beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all
go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing
befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man
hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.)

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will
my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death?

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man
has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that
thing! PROPOSITION.

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and
the moment of awakening to the resurrection.

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not
affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find:

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and
continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious.

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of
necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the
opposite of sleep is to be awake and

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not
conscious.

DEFINITIONS.

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death.

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will
be conceded by my opponent.

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges.

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased
to perform their functions.

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am
going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct
ones.

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or
mental operations; possessing knowledge.

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of
mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything.

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument.
 WHAT IS MAN?

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is
the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being,
or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal?

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and
soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like
other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and
implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever,
and is always conscious.

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal,
because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A
child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception,
according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just
conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on
earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or
election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The
creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'.
(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings.

BIBLE ANSWER.

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.)
Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.)
Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1
Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.'
(1 Corinthians 15:46.)

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is
composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times
spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the
breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the
word 'being.'

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from
the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is
the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely.

THE SOUL.

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.)
 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious
when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess
consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the
creature, the man.

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of
animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is
applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men
of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the
beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all
go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing
befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man
hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.)

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will
my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death?

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man
has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that
thing!

PENALTY OF THE LAW.

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that
thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then
God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was
this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will
contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4).
'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and
shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?'

MAN NOT IMMORTAL.

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and
immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that
quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has
not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear
him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still
have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture
text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.'

THE FIRST LIE.

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable
or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked,
'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye
shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis
3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of
this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the
truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age.
The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should
shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan
has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no
death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the
Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully
practiced upon the people.PROPOSITION.

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and
the moment of awakening to the resurrection.

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not
affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find:

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and
continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious.

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of
necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the
opposite of sleep is to be awake and

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not
conscious.

DEFINITIONS.

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death.

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will
be conceded by my opponent.

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges.

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased
to perform their functions.

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am
going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct
ones.

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or
mental operations; possessing knowledge.

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of
mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything.

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument.
 WHAT IS MAN?

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is
the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being,
or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal?

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and
soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like
other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and
implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever,
and is always conscious.

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal,
because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A
child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception,
according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just
conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on
earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or
election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The
creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'.
(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings.

BIBLE ANSWER.

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.)
Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.)
Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1
Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.'
(1 Corinthians 15:46.)

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is
composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times
spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the
breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the
word 'being.'

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from
the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is
the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely.

THE SOUL.

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.)
 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious
when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess
consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the
creature, the man.

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of
animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is
applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men
of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the
beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all
go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing
befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man
hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.)

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will
my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death?

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man
has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that
thing!

PENALTY OF THE LAW.

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that
thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then
God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was
this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will
contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4).
'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and
shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?'

MAN NOT IMMORTAL.

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and
immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that
quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has
not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear
him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still
have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture
text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.'

THE FIRST LIE.

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable
or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked,
'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye
shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis
3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of
this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the
truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age.
The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should
shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan
has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no
death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the
Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully
practiced upon the people.

WHO IS IMMORTAL?

"The Bible answers (1 Timothy 6:16), 'God only hath immortality.' There is a wide distinction
between man in general and one who has become a real Christian. One line of Scriptures
applies to men in general, and another and different line of Scriptures applies to the real
followers of Christ. Mark my opponent's argument and see if he rightly divides the word of
truth and makes this distinction.

"The New Testament speaks of immortality as a promised reward, not an inherent quality. It is
the greatest reward that God has to bestow upon his creatures who love and serve him. To the
Christian, St. Paul says, 'Seek ye immortality.' (Romans 2:7.) A man does not seek for that
which he already possesses. Again, 'This mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians
15:53.) If man already possessed Immortality he would not be looking forward to the future
when he would receive that which he already possesses. These Scriptures have no reference to
the world, but to Christians only. The world of mankind will never possess the quality of
immortality. To the church the promise is made, 'Be thou faithful unto death and I will give
thee the crown of life.' The highest element of life, immortality. (Revelation 2:10.)

THE DEAD UNCONSCIOUS.

"We have shown that man is a soul; that man-soul is subject to death; that it would be
impossible for a dead soul or being to be conscious while dead. Now we offer some
corroborative Scriptural proof establishing this fact beyond the question of a doubt, and we
believe to the complete satisfaction of every one who believes the Bible.

WITHOUT MEMORY.

"When a man dies, according to the Bible, he ceases to remember, nor can he give praise to
God, 'for in death there is no remembrance of thee'; 'in the grave who shall give thee thanks?'
(Psalms 6:5.) 'Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee. Shall
thy loving kindness be declared in the grave or thy faithfulness in destruction?' (Psalms 88:10,
12.) If these Scriptures be true, then the dead could not be conscious.

 PROPOSITION. 

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and 

the moment of awakening to the resurrection. 

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not 

affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find: 

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and 

continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious. 

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of 

necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the 

opposite of sleep is to be awake and 

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not 

conscious. 

DEFINITIONS. 

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death. 

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will 

be conceded by my opponent. 

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges. 

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased 

to perform their functions. 

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am 

going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct 

ones. 

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or 

mental operations; possessing knowledge. 

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of 

mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything. 

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument. 

 WHAT IS MAN? 

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is 

the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being, 

or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal? 

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and 

soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like 

other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and 

implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever, 

and is always conscious. 

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal, 

because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A 

child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception, 

according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just 

conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on 

earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or 

election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The 

creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'. 

(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings. 

BIBLE ANSWER. 

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.) 

Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.) 

Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1 

Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.' 

(1 Corinthians 15:46.) 

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is 

composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times 

spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the 

breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the 

word 'being.' 

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from 

the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is 

the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely. 

THE SOUL. 

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground 

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.) 

 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious 

when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess 

consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the 

creature, the man. 

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of 

animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is 

applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men 

of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the 

beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all 

go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing 

befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man 

hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, 

and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.) 

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will 

my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death? 

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man 

has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that 

thing! 

PENALTY OF THE LAW. 

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that 

thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then 

God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was 

this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will 

contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4). 

'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and 

shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?' 

MAN NOT IMMORTAL. 

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and 

immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that 

quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has 

not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear 

him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still 

have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture 

text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.' 

THE FIRST LIE. 

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable 

or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked, 

'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye 

shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis 

3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of 

this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the 

truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age. 

The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should 

shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan 

has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no 

death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the 

Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully 

practiced upon the people. 

WHO IS IMMORTAL? 

"The Bible answers (1 Timothy 6:16), 'God only hath immortality.' There is a wide distinction 

between man in general and one who has become a real Christian. One line of Scriptures 

applies to men in general, and another and different line of Scriptures applies to the real 

followers of Christ. Mark my opponent's argument and see if he rightly divides the word of 

truth and makes this distinction. 

"The New Testament speaks of immortality as a promised reward, not an inherent quality. It is 

the greatest reward that God has to bestow upon his creatures who love and serve him. To the 

Christian, St. Paul says, 'Seek ye immortality.' (Romans 2:7.) A man does not seek for that 

which he already possesses. Again, 'This mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 

15:53.) If man already possessed Immortality he would not be looking forward to the future 

when he would receive that which he already possesses. These Scriptures have no reference to 

the world, but to Christians only. The world of mankind will never possess the quality of 

immortality. To the church the promise is made, 'Be thou faithful unto death and I will give 

thee the crown of life.' The highest element of life, immortality. (Revelation 2:10.) 

THE DEAD UNCONSCIOUS. 

"We have shown that man is a soul; that man-soul is subject to death; that it would be 

impossible for a dead soul or being to be conscious while dead. Now we offer some 

corroborative Scriptural proof establishing this fact beyond the question of a doubt, and we 

believe to the complete satisfaction of every one who believes the Bible. 

WITHOUT MEMORY. 

"When a man dies, according to the Bible, he ceases to remember, nor can he give praise to 

God, 'for in death there is no remembrance of thee'; 'in the grave who shall give thee thanks?' 

(Psalms 6:5.) 'Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee. Shall 

thy loving kindness be declared in the grave or thy faithfulness in destruction?' (Psalms 88:10, 

12.) If these Scriptures be true, then the dead could not be conscious. 

 SPEAK NOT. 

"They also cease speaking. 'The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into 

silence.' Psalms 115-17.) 

NEITHER BREATHE, THINK, FEEL. 

"They also stop breathing, thinking and feeling. 'Thou takest away their breath; they die and 

return to the dust.' (Psalms 104:29.) 'His breath goeth forth, he returneth to the earth; in that 

very day his thoughts perish.' (Psalms 146:4.) A person that cannot think and who knows 

nothing could not be conscious, neither could such an one feel. As an illustration, a man goes to 

the hospital to submit to a serious operation. Before the surgeon begins to use the knife he puts 

his patient under the influence of an anesthetic for the express purpose of producing 

unconsciousness, because he does not wish the patient to feel and thereby suffer pain of the 

operation. 

CEASES TO HATE. 

"We must keep in mind that my opponent and myself have agreed that the Bible is the authority 

by which these questions shall be settled, and mere theory and conjecture should not be 

tolerated. Then let us have some more Bible proof upon the proposition. A dead man ceases to 

love, ceases to hate and ceases to envy. (Ecclesiastes 9:6.) 

"Furthermore, the Scriptures clearly state that he 'knows not anything.' (Ecclesiastes 9:50.) The 

dead stop working; there is no more device and no more scheming. 'Whatsoever thy hand 

findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor 

wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.' (Ecclesiastes 9:10.) 

"I submit that when a man reaches the point where he cannot remember; cannot give thanks; 

cannot speak; cannot breathe; does not think; has no feeling; neither loves, hates or envies; does 

not work; and knows not anything, he must be actually and completely dead, therefore 

unconscious. 

PERISHED. 

"To perish means to be destroyed; to be cut off; to cease to exist. -- Dr. Strong. Therefore, a 

creature that has perished cannot be conscious anywhere. Does man perish when he dies? Let 

the Scriptures answer. 'For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person 

perish, and leave their wealth to others. Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue 

forever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 

Nevertheless, man being in honor abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.' (Psalms 

49:10,12.)

 PROPOSITION. 

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and 

the moment of awakening to the resurrection. 

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not 

affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find: 

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and 

continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious. 

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of 

necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the 

opposite of sleep is to be awake and 

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not 

conscious. 

DEFINITIONS. 

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death. 

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will 

be conceded by my opponent. 

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges. 

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased 

to perform their functions. 

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am 

going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct 

ones. 

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or 

mental operations; possessing knowledge. 

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of 

mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything. 

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument. 

 WHAT IS MAN? 

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is 

the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being, 

or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal? 

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and 

soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like 

other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and 

implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever, 

and is always conscious. 

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal, 

because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A 

child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception, 

according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just 

conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on 

earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or 

election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The 

creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'. 

(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings. 

BIBLE ANSWER. 

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.) 

Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.) 

Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1 

Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.' 

(1 Corinthians 15:46.) 

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is 

composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times 

spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the 

breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the 

word 'being.' 

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from 

the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is 

the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely. 

THE SOUL. 

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground 

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.) 

 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious 

when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess 

consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the 

creature, the man. 

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of 

animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is 

applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men 

of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the 

beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all 

go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing 

befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man 

hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, 

and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.) 

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will 

my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death? 

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man 

has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that 

thing! 

PENALTY OF THE LAW. 

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that 

thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then 

God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was 

this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will 

contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4). 

'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and 

shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?' 

MAN NOT IMMORTAL. 

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and 

immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that 

quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has 

not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear 

him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still 

have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture 

text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.' 

THE FIRST LIE. 

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable 

or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked, 

'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye 

shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis 

3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of 

this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the 

truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age. 

The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should 

shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan 

has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no 

death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the 

Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully 

practiced upon the people. 

WHO IS IMMORTAL? 

"The Bible answers (1 Timothy 6:16), 'God only hath immortality.' There is a wide distinction 

between man in general and one who has become a real Christian. One line of Scriptures 

applies to men in general, and another and different line of Scriptures applies to the real 

followers of Christ. Mark my opponent's argument and see if he rightly divides the word of 

truth and makes this distinction. 

"The New Testament speaks of immortality as a promised reward, not an inherent quality. It is 

the greatest reward that God has to bestow upon his creatures who love and serve him. To the 

Christian, St. Paul says, 'Seek ye immortality.' (Romans 2:7.) A man does not seek for that 

which he already possesses. Again, 'This mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 

15:53.) If man already possessed Immortality he would not be looking forward to the future 

when he would receive that which he already possesses. These Scriptures have no reference to 

the world, but to Christians only. The world of mankind will never possess the quality of 

immortality. To the church the promise is made, 'Be thou faithful unto death and I will give 

thee the crown of life.' The highest element of life, immortality. (Revelation 2:10.) 

THE DEAD UNCONSCIOUS. 

"We have shown that man is a soul; that man-soul is subject to death; that it would be 

impossible for a dead soul or being to be conscious while dead. Now we offer some 

corroborative Scriptural proof establishing this fact beyond the question of a doubt, and we 

believe to the complete satisfaction of every one who believes the Bible. 

WITHOUT MEMORY. 

"When a man dies, according to the Bible, he ceases to remember, nor can he give praise to 

God, 'for in death there is no remembrance of thee'; 'in the grave who shall give thee thanks?' 

(Psalms 6:5.) 'Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee. Shall 

thy loving kindness be declared in the grave or thy faithfulness in destruction?' (Psalms 88:10, 

12.) If these Scriptures be true, then the dead could not be conscious. 

 SPEAK NOT. 

"They also cease speaking. 'The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into 

silence.' Psalms 115-17.) 

NEITHER BREATHE, THINK, FEEL. 

"They also stop breathing, thinking and feeling. 'Thou takest away their breath; they die and 

return to the dust.' (Psalms 104:29.) 'His breath goeth forth, he returneth to the earth; in that 

very day his thoughts perish.' (Psalms 146:4.) A person that cannot think and who knows 

nothing could not be conscious, neither could such an one feel. As an illustration, a man goes to 

the hospital to submit to a serious operation. Before the surgeon begins to use the knife he puts 

his patient under the influence of an anesthetic for the express purpose of producing 

unconsciousness, because he does not wish the patient to feel and thereby suffer pain of the 

operation. 

CEASES TO HATE. 

"We must keep in mind that my opponent and myself have agreed that the Bible is the authority 

by which these questions shall be settled, and mere theory and conjecture should not be 

tolerated. Then let us have some more Bible proof upon the proposition. A dead man ceases to 

love, ceases to hate and ceases to envy. (Ecclesiastes 9:6.) 

"Furthermore, the Scriptures clearly state that he 'knows not anything.' (Ecclesiastes 9:50.) The 

dead stop working; there is no more device and no more scheming. 'Whatsoever thy hand 

findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor 

wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.' (Ecclesiastes 9:10.) 

"I submit that when a man reaches the point where he cannot remember; cannot give thanks; 

cannot speak; cannot breathe; does not think; has no feeling; neither loves, hates or envies; does 

not work; and knows not anything, he must be actually and completely dead, therefore 

unconscious. 

PERISHED. 

"To perish means to be destroyed; to be cut off; to cease to exist. -- Dr. Strong. Therefore, a 

creature that has perished cannot be conscious anywhere. Does man perish when he dies? Let 

the Scriptures answer. 'For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person 

perish, and leave their wealth to others. Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue 

forever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 

Nevertheless, man being in honor abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.' (Psalms 

49:10,12.) 

 WHY MEN DIE. 

"It is a principle of God's law that every perfect, righteous creature is entitled to life. It follows 

that every unrighteous creature has no legal right to life. God enforced his judgment against 

Adam in a gradual manner, viz -- by forcing Adam out of Eden, where the food was perfect, 

and forcing him to obtain his food or sustenance from the unfinished earth, which brought forth 

or produced poisonous foods. As he partook of these poisonous foods, disease was taken into 

his blood and the death process began and was gradual until he was completely dead. Adam 

was legally dead when driven from Eden, actually and completely dead 930 years later. 

"Adam was given power, before he sinned, to transmit the spark of life, or life principle, to his 

children. The judgment of God deprived him of his legal right to life and that judgment pursued 

the power of reproduction; in other words, his offspring were begotten under the disability that 

their father was laboring under, viz.: without legal right to life, and the Father Adam 

transmitted to his offspring the same poison or disease that was in his system. The perfect man 

Adam begot no children. His children he begot after he was under the sentence of death, and 

therefore he transmitted to all of his offspring the disease in his own body. Consequently, by 

operation of God's law, all of Adam's children inherited death and were born legally dead, or 

without a legal right to life. In proof of this we read, in Psalms 51:5, 'Behold, I was shapen in 

iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me'; and again (Romans 5:12). 'As by the 

disobedience of one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, therefore death passed upon 

all men, for all have sinned.' It follows that every man that has died, died because of the 

judgment that was justly placed against Adam and which by inheritance came upon his 

offspring. Every man thus justly dying would, of necessity, remain dead forever unless God 

had made some provision for his redemption and resurrection. 

REDEMPTION. 

"In John 3:16 we read; 'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that 

whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' 

"I submit that these words of the Master conclusively prove that the dead are unconscious until 

the awakening to the resurrection. A creature that perishes could not have consciousness, and in 

this Scripture the statement is made that all would perish forever without the provision God 

made for redemption through Jesus Christ. 

"My opponent must concede, if he believes the Bible, that none would be saved without 

believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This Scripture is positive that all of us would perish. 

"Thus we see we are not limited to the Old Testament to prove that the dead are unconscious 

until the awakening to the resurrection.

 PROPOSITION. 

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and 

the moment of awakening to the resurrection. 

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not 

affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find: 

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and 

continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious. 

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of 

necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the 

opposite of sleep is to be awake and 

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not 

conscious. 

DEFINITIONS. 

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death. 

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will 

be conceded by my opponent. 

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges. 

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased 

to perform their functions. 

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am 

going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct 

ones. 

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or 

mental operations; possessing knowledge. 

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of 

mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything. 

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument. 

 WHAT IS MAN? 

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is 

the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being, 

or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal? 

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and 

soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like 

other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and 

implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever, 

and is always conscious. 

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal, 

because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A 

child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception, 

according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just 

conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on 

earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or 

election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The 

creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'. 

(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings. 

BIBLE ANSWER. 

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.) 

Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.) 

Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1 

Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.' 

(1 Corinthians 15:46.) 

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is 

composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times 

spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the 

breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the 

word 'being.' 

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from 

the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is 

the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely. 

THE SOUL. 

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground 

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.) 

 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious 

when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess 

consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the 

creature, the man. 

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of 

animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is 

applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men 

of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the 

beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all 

go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing 

befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man 

hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, 

and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.) 

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will 

my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death? 

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man 

has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that 

thing! 

PENALTY OF THE LAW. 

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that 

thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then 

God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was 

this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will 

contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4). 

'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and 

shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?' 

MAN NOT IMMORTAL. 

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and 

immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that 

quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has 

not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear 

him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still 

have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture 

text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.' 

THE FIRST LIE. 

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable 

or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked, 

'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye 

shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis 

3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of 

this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the 

truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age. 

The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should 

shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan 

has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no 

death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the 

Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully 

practiced upon the people. 

WHO IS IMMORTAL? 

"The Bible answers (1 Timothy 6:16), 'God only hath immortality.' There is a wide distinction 

between man in general and one who has become a real Christian. One line of Scriptures 

applies to men in general, and another and different line of Scriptures applies to the real 

followers of Christ. Mark my opponent's argument and see if he rightly divides the word of 

truth and makes this distinction. 

"The New Testament speaks of immortality as a promised reward, not an inherent quality. It is 

the greatest reward that God has to bestow upon his creatures who love and serve him. To the 

Christian, St. Paul says, 'Seek ye immortality.' (Romans 2:7.) A man does not seek for that 

which he already possesses. Again, 'This mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 

15:53.) If man already possessed Immortality he would not be looking forward to the future 

when he would receive that which he already possesses. These Scriptures have no reference to 

the world, but to Christians only. The world of mankind will never possess the quality of 

immortality. To the church the promise is made, 'Be thou faithful unto death and I will give 

thee the crown of life.' The highest element of life, immortality. (Revelation 2:10.) 

THE DEAD UNCONSCIOUS. 

"We have shown that man is a soul; that man-soul is subject to death; that it would be 

impossible for a dead soul or being to be conscious while dead. Now we offer some 

corroborative Scriptural proof establishing this fact beyond the question of a doubt, and we 

believe to the complete satisfaction of every one who believes the Bible. 

WITHOUT MEMORY. 

"When a man dies, according to the Bible, he ceases to remember, nor can he give praise to 

God, 'for in death there is no remembrance of thee'; 'in the grave who shall give thee thanks?' 

(Psalms 6:5.) 'Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee. Shall 

thy loving kindness be declared in the grave or thy faithfulness in destruction?' (Psalms 88:10, 

12.) If these Scriptures be true, then the dead could not be conscious. 

 SPEAK NOT. 

"They also cease speaking. 'The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into 

silence.' Psalms 115-17.) 

NEITHER BREATHE, THINK, FEEL. 

"They also stop breathing, thinking and feeling. 'Thou takest away their breath; they die and 

return to the dust.' (Psalms 104:29.) 'His breath goeth forth, he returneth to the earth; in that 

very day his thoughts perish.' (Psalms 146:4.) A person that cannot think and who knows 

nothing could not be conscious, neither could such an one feel. As an illustration, a man goes to 

the hospital to submit to a serious operation. Before the surgeon begins to use the knife he puts 

his patient under the influence of an anesthetic for the express purpose of producing 

unconsciousness, because he does not wish the patient to feel and thereby suffer pain of the 

operation. 

CEASES TO HATE. 

"We must keep in mind that my opponent and myself have agreed that the Bible is the authority 

by which these questions shall be settled, and mere theory and conjecture should not be 

tolerated. Then let us have some more Bible proof upon the proposition. A dead man ceases to 

love, ceases to hate and ceases to envy. (Ecclesiastes 9:6.) 

"Furthermore, the Scriptures clearly state that he 'knows not anything.' (Ecclesiastes 9:50.) The 

dead stop working; there is no more device and no more scheming. 'Whatsoever thy hand 

findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor 

wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.' (Ecclesiastes 9:10.) 

"I submit that when a man reaches the point where he cannot remember; cannot give thanks; 

cannot speak; cannot breathe; does not think; has no feeling; neither loves, hates or envies; does 

not work; and knows not anything, he must be actually and completely dead, therefore 

unconscious. 

PERISHED. 

"To perish means to be destroyed; to be cut off; to cease to exist. -- Dr. Strong. Therefore, a 

creature that has perished cannot be conscious anywhere. Does man perish when he dies? Let 

the Scriptures answer. 'For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person 

perish, and leave their wealth to others. Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue 

forever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 

Nevertheless, man being in honor abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.' (Psalms 

49:10,12.) 

 WHY MEN DIE. 

"It is a principle of God's law that every perfect, righteous creature is entitled to life. It follows 

that every unrighteous creature has no legal right to life. God enforced his judgment against 

Adam in a gradual manner, viz -- by forcing Adam out of Eden, where the food was perfect, 

and forcing him to obtain his food or sustenance from the unfinished earth, which brought forth 

or produced poisonous foods. As he partook of these poisonous foods, disease was taken into 

his blood and the death process began and was gradual until he was completely dead. Adam 

was legally dead when driven from Eden, actually and completely dead 930 years later. 

"Adam was given power, before he sinned, to transmit the spark of life, or life principle, to his 

children. The judgment of God deprived him of his legal right to life and that judgment pursued 

the power of reproduction; in other words, his offspring were begotten under the disability that 

their father was laboring under, viz.: without legal right to life, and the Father Adam 

transmitted to his offspring the same poison or disease that was in his system. The perfect man 

Adam begot no children. His children he begot after he was under the sentence of death, and 

therefore he transmitted to all of his offspring the disease in his own body. Consequently, by 

operation of God's law, all of Adam's children inherited death and were born legally dead, or 

without a legal right to life. In proof of this we read, in Psalms 51:5, 'Behold, I was shapen in 

iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me'; and again (Romans 5:12). 'As by the 

disobedience of one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, therefore death passed upon 

all men, for all have sinned.' It follows that every man that has died, died because of the 

judgment that was justly placed against Adam and which by inheritance came upon his 

offspring. Every man thus justly dying would, of necessity, remain dead forever unless God 

had made some provision for his redemption and resurrection. 

REDEMPTION. 

"In John 3:16 we read; 'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that 

whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' 

"I submit that these words of the Master conclusively prove that the dead are unconscious until 

the awakening to the resurrection. A creature that perishes could not have consciousness, and in 

this Scripture the statement is made that all would perish forever without the provision God 

made for redemption through Jesus Christ. 

"My opponent must concede, if he believes the Bible, that none would be saved without 

believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This Scripture is positive that all of us would perish. 

"Thus we see we are not limited to the Old Testament to prove that the dead are unconscious 

until the awakening to the resurrection. 

MORE PROOF. 

"St. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:16, 18, says: 'If the dead rise not, then Christ is not raised, and if 

Christ be not raised your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins; then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.' Mark, he says that even Christians are perished, utterly 

destroyed, if there be no resurrection. They are already perished, because dead, and their future 

life is absolutely dependent upon the resurrection. 

"Now I ask my opponent to answer this question: If the dead are perished unless there is a 

resurrection, how would it be possible for that creature to be conscious prior to the time of 

being awakened to the resurrection? Resurrection really means re-creation -- bringing again to 

perfect condition of life. 

WHY RESURRECTION POSSIBLE? 

"While we must leave for a subsequent argument a more detailed discussion of the philosophy 

of the ransom sacrifice, it is necessary here to call attention to some of the cardinal points 

thereof. 

"The perfect man Adam sinned, and thereby forfeited all his right to life. Before his sin the 

entire human race, unborn, was in his loins; that is to say, he had the power to produce the race 

and in this sense the whole race had a life-standing in Adam. When he sinned all his rights 

were lost, hence all of his offspring were born legally dead. The apostle emphasizes this fact 

when he says; 'In Adam all die.' 

"God's law provided that his judgment might be satisfied by the voluntary death of another 

equal to Adam, 'a life for a life.' (Exodus 21:23.) Jesus partook of flesh and blood for the very 

purpose of redeeming man. (Hebrews 2:9.) He stated (Mark 10:45) that he came to give his life 

a ransom (corresponding price). By his death and resurrection from the dead the Lord provided 

the ransom price for Adam and his offspring. This was an absolute guarantee that the entire 

human race, in God's due time, would be released from the condemnation of death and 

awakened to a resurrection. Because the penalty of sin is death and death means cessation of 

life, it was necessary for the man, Christ Jesus, to die in order to redeem mankind from that 

death sentence; and the fact of his death and resurrection, the apostle argues, is conclusive 

proof that all the dead shall come forth. 

DEATH -- SLEEP. 

"Since God has made provision for the awakening of the dead to the resurrection, the Bible 

frequently speaks of death as sleep. Sleep is a symbol of death, and the word is used in that 

sense. A man lies down to sleep and we say he will wake again. And so we say with reference 

to the dead -- 'He shall awake and come again.' As the Prophet Jeremiah beautifully states the 

matter (Jeremiah 31:15-16), 'Thus sayeth the Lord, a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, 

and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, 

because they were not. Thus sayeth the Lord, refrain thy voice from weeping and thine eyes 

from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the 

land of the enemy. Thy children shall come again to their own border." This Scripture proves 

that the dead were out of existence but there was hope for a resurrection. 

PROPOSITION. 

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and 

the moment of awakening to the resurrection. 

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not 

affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find: 

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and 

continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious. 

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of 

necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the 

opposite of sleep is to be awake and 

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not 

conscious. 

DEFINITIONS. 

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death. 

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will 

be conceded by my opponent. 

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges. 

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased 

to perform their functions. 

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am 

going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct 

ones. 

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or 

mental operations; possessing knowledge. 

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of 

mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything. 

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument. 

 WHAT IS MAN? 

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is 

the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being, 

or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal? 

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and 

soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like 

other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and 

implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever, 

and is always conscious. 

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal, 

because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A 

child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception, 

according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just 

conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on 

earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or 

election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The 

creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'. 

(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings. 

BIBLE ANSWER. 

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.) 

Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.) 

Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1 

Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.' 

(1 Corinthians 15:46.) 

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is 

composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times 

spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the 

breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the 

word 'being.' 

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from 

the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is 

the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely. 

THE SOUL. 

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground 

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.) 

 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious 

when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess 

consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the 

creature, the man. 

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of 

animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is 

applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men 

of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the 

beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all 

go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing 

befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man 

hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, 

and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.) 

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will 

my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death? 

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man 

has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that 

thing! 

PENALTY OF THE LAW. 

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that 

thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then 

God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was 

this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will 

contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4). 

'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and 

shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?' 

MAN NOT IMMORTAL. 

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and 

immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that 

quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has 

not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear 

him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still 

have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture 

text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.' 

THE FIRST LIE. 

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable 

or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked, 

'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye 

shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis 

3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of 

this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the 

truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age. 

The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should 

shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan 

has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no 

death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the 

Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully 

practiced upon the people. 

WHO IS IMMORTAL? 

"The Bible answers (1 Timothy 6:16), 'God only hath immortality.' There is a wide distinction 

between man in general and one who has become a real Christian. One line of Scriptures 

applies to men in general, and another and different line of Scriptures applies to the real 

followers of Christ. Mark my opponent's argument and see if he rightly divides the word of 

truth and makes this distinction. 

"The New Testament speaks of immortality as a promised reward, not an inherent quality. It is 

the greatest reward that God has to bestow upon his creatures who love and serve him. To the 

Christian, St. Paul says, 'Seek ye immortality.' (Romans 2:7.) A man does not seek for that 

which he already possesses. Again, 'This mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 

15:53.) If man already possessed Immortality he would not be looking forward to the future 

when he would receive that which he already possesses. These Scriptures have no reference to 

the world, but to Christians only. The world of mankind will never possess the quality of 

immortality. To the church the promise is made, 'Be thou faithful unto death and I will give 

thee the crown of life.' The highest element of life, immortality. (Revelation 2:10.) 

THE DEAD UNCONSCIOUS. 

"We have shown that man is a soul; that man-soul is subject to death; that it would be 

impossible for a dead soul or being to be conscious while dead. Now we offer some 

corroborative Scriptural proof establishing this fact beyond the question of a doubt, and we 

believe to the complete satisfaction of every one who believes the Bible. 

WITHOUT MEMORY. 

"When a man dies, according to the Bible, he ceases to remember, nor can he give praise to 

God, 'for in death there is no remembrance of thee'; 'in the grave who shall give thee thanks?' 

(Psalms 6:5.) 'Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee. Shall 

thy loving kindness be declared in the grave or thy faithfulness in destruction?' (Psalms 88:10, 

12.) If these Scriptures be true, then the dead could not be conscious. 

 SPEAK NOT. 

"They also cease speaking. 'The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into 

silence.' Psalms 115-17.) 

NEITHER BREATHE, THINK, FEEL. 

"They also stop breathing, thinking and feeling. 'Thou takest away their breath; they die and 

return to the dust.' (Psalms 104:29.) 'His breath goeth forth, he returneth to the earth; in that 

very day his thoughts perish.' (Psalms 146:4.) A person that cannot think and who knows 

nothing could not be conscious, neither could such an one feel. As an illustration, a man goes to 

the hospital to submit to a serious operation. Before the surgeon begins to use the knife he puts 

his patient under the influence of an anesthetic for the express purpose of producing 

unconsciousness, because he does not wish the patient to feel and thereby suffer pain of the 

operation. 

CEASES TO HATE. 

"We must keep in mind that my opponent and myself have agreed that the Bible is the authority 

by which these questions shall be settled, and mere theory and conjecture should not be 

tolerated. Then let us have some more Bible proof upon the proposition. A dead man ceases to 

love, ceases to hate and ceases to envy. (Ecclesiastes 9:6.) 

"Furthermore, the Scriptures clearly state that he 'knows not anything.' (Ecclesiastes 9:50.) The 

dead stop working; there is no more device and no more scheming. 'Whatsoever thy hand 

findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor 

wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.' (Ecclesiastes 9:10.) 

"I submit that when a man reaches the point where he cannot remember; cannot give thanks; 

cannot speak; cannot breathe; does not think; has no feeling; neither loves, hates or envies; does 

not work; and knows not anything, he must be actually and completely dead, therefore 

unconscious. 

PERISHED. 

"To perish means to be destroyed; to be cut off; to cease to exist. -- Dr. Strong. Therefore, a 

creature that has perished cannot be conscious anywhere. Does man perish when he dies? Let 

the Scriptures answer. 'For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person 

perish, and leave their wealth to others. Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue 

forever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 

Nevertheless, man being in honor abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.' (Psalms 

49:10,12.) 

 WHY MEN DIE. 

"It is a principle of God's law that every perfect, righteous creature is entitled to life. It follows 

that every unrighteous creature has no legal right to life. God enforced his judgment against 

Adam in a gradual manner, viz -- by forcing Adam out of Eden, where the food was perfect, 

and forcing him to obtain his food or sustenance from the unfinished earth, which brought forth 

or produced poisonous foods. As he partook of these poisonous foods, disease was taken into 

his blood and the death process began and was gradual until he was completely dead. Adam 

was legally dead when driven from Eden, actually and completely dead 930 years later. 

"Adam was given power, before he sinned, to transmit the spark of life, or life principle, to his 

children. The judgment of God deprived him of his legal right to life and that judgment pursued 

the power of reproduction; in other words, his offspring were begotten under the disability that 

their father was laboring under, viz.: without legal right to life, and the Father Adam 

transmitted to his offspring the same poison or disease that was in his system. The perfect man 

Adam begot no children. His children he begot after he was under the sentence of death, and 

therefore he transmitted to all of his offspring the disease in his own body. Consequently, by 

operation of God's law, all of Adam's children inherited death and were born legally dead, or 

without a legal right to life. In proof of this we read, in Psalms 51:5, 'Behold, I was shapen in 

iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me'; and again (Romans 5:12). 'As by the 

disobedience of one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, therefore death passed upon 

all men, for all have sinned.' It follows that every man that has died, died because of the 

judgment that was justly placed against Adam and which by inheritance came upon his 

offspring. Every man thus justly dying would, of necessity, remain dead forever unless God 

had made some provision for his redemption and resurrection. 

REDEMPTION. 

"In John 3:16 we read; 'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that 

whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' 

"I submit that these words of the Master conclusively prove that the dead are unconscious until 

the awakening to the resurrection. A creature that perishes could not have consciousness, and in 

this Scripture the statement is made that all would perish forever without the provision God 

made for redemption through Jesus Christ. 

"My opponent must concede, if he believes the Bible, that none would be saved without 

believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This Scripture is positive that all of us would perish. 

"Thus we see we are not limited to the Old Testament to prove that the dead are unconscious 

until the awakening to the resurrection. 

MORE PROOF. 

"St. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:16, 18, says: 'If the dead rise not, then Christ is not raised, and if 

Christ be not raised your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins; then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.' Mark, he says that even Christians are perished, utterly 

destroyed, if there be no resurrection. They are already perished, because dead, and their future 

life is absolutely dependent upon the resurrection. 

"Now I ask my opponent to answer this question: If the dead are perished unless there is a 

resurrection, how would it be possible for that creature to be conscious prior to the time of 

being awakened to the resurrection? Resurrection really means re-creation -- bringing again to 

perfect condition of life. 

WHY RESURRECTION POSSIBLE? 

"While we must leave for a subsequent argument a more detailed discussion of the philosophy 

of the ransom sacrifice, it is necessary here to call attention to some of the cardinal points 

thereof. 

"The perfect man Adam sinned, and thereby forfeited all his right to life. Before his sin the 

entire human race, unborn, was in his loins; that is to say, he had the power to produce the race 

and in this sense the whole race had a life-standing in Adam. When he sinned all his rights 

were lost, hence all of his offspring were born legally dead. The apostle emphasizes this fact 

when he says; 'In Adam all die.' 

"God's law provided that his judgment might be satisfied by the voluntary death of another 

equal to Adam, 'a life for a life.' (Exodus 21:23.) Jesus partook of flesh and blood for the very 

purpose of redeeming man. (Hebrews 2:9.) He stated (Mark 10:45) that he came to give his life 

a ransom (corresponding price). By his death and resurrection from the dead the Lord provided 

the ransom price for Adam and his offspring. This was an absolute guarantee that the entire 

human race, in God's due time, would be released from the condemnation of death and 

awakened to a resurrection. Because the penalty of sin is death and death means cessation of 

life, it was necessary for the man, Christ Jesus, to die in order to redeem mankind from that 

death sentence; and the fact of his death and resurrection, the apostle argues, is conclusive 

proof that all the dead shall come forth. 

DEATH -- SLEEP. 

"Since God has made provision for the awakening of the dead to the resurrection, the Bible 

frequently speaks of death as sleep. Sleep is a symbol of death, and the word is used in that 

sense. A man lies down to sleep and we say he will wake again. And so we say with reference 

to the dead -- 'He shall awake and come again.' As the Prophet Jeremiah beautifully states the 

matter (Jeremiah 31:15-16), 'Thus sayeth the Lord, a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, 

and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, 

because they were not. Thus sayeth the Lord, refrain thy voice from weeping and thine eyes 

from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the 

land of the enemy. Thy children shall come again to their own border." This Scripture proves 

that the dead were out of existence but there was hope for a resurrection. 

 "Both the Old and New Testaments abound with expressions referring to the dead as asleep. 

We read, 1 Kings 2:10, that 'David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.' 

St. Peter says, 'The fathers fell asleep. (2 Peter 3:4.) St. Paul, speaking of those who had seen 

Jesus in the flesh, said, 'The greater part remain until this day, but some are fallen asleep.' (1 

Corinthians 15:6.) Again, 'I would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are 

asleep. Them that sleep in Jesus God will bring forth by Jesus at the resurrection.' (1 

Thessalonians 4:3-14.) 

SLEEPING -- UNCONSCIOUS. 

"Who ever heard of one sleeping soundly and being conscious at the same time? Sleep means 

suspension of the voluntary exercise of the functions of the body and mind. Sleep is used as a 

symbol of death. The reality is more pronounced than the symbol. If the symbol represents 

unconsciousness, the reality does even more so. 

"The death sleep is so absolutely a period of unconsciousness that the awakening one will have 

no knowledge of the lapse of time or the transpiring of events. Now we will prove the truth of 

this statement by the Lord Jesus' own testimony. In John, 11th chapter, verses 1 to 44 (John 

11:1-44), we find this proof, which we paraphrase. Lazarus lived with his two sisters at 

Bethany. Jesus was often entertained at this home and taught the members of the household. 

Lazarus became sick. Word was sent to Jesus of Lazarus' illness, but after he heard it Jesus 

remained in the same place for two days longer. He was preparing to teach mankind a great 

lesson concerning the dead and how they shall be awakened out of the sleep of death. At the 

end of the two days, speaking to his disciples, he said, 'Our friend Lazarus sleepeth.' His 

disciples replied, 'Lord if he sleepeth he doeth well, but Jesus spake of his death, but they 

thought he had spoken of taking rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, 'Lazarus is 

dead.' Thomas suggested that they go to Bethany at once. Jesus and his disciples went. Arriving 

at Bethany they found that Lazarus had been dead and buried for four days. Jesus here 

performed a great miracle, which testified in no uncertain terms as to the condition of the dead 

and proves beyond all doubt that the dead are wholly unconscious until the awakening to the 

resurrection. Mark what he did! He did not call Lazarus out of heaven, nor out of purgatory, nor 

a lake of fire and brimstone, but after giving thanks to God he went to the grave, which was a 

cave in the hillside, and cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth,' and the dead came forth. 

"Let my opponent answer this question if he will: If Lazarus was at all conscious during the 

four days that he was dead and in the grave, why is there not some proof of it some-where to be 

found in the Bible? Jesus was here showing how the dead are to be awakened out of the sleep 

of death. It was of the greatest importance, if Lazarus had been conscious, that some proof of 

that fact might have been recorded. The fact that nothing is said about his being conscious, 

taken in con-junction with numerous other Scriptures that show that the dead are wholly 

unconscious, is conclusive proof that Lazarus was unconscious for four days while dead and PROPOSITION. 

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and 

the moment of awakening to the resurrection. 

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not 

affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find: 

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and 

continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious. 

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of 

necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the 

opposite of sleep is to be awake and 

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not 

conscious. 

DEFINITIONS. 

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death. 

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will 

be conceded by my opponent. 

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges. 

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased 

to perform their functions. 

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am 

going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct 

ones. 

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or 

mental operations; possessing knowledge. 

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of 

mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything. 

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument. 

 WHAT IS MAN? 

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is 

the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being, 

or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal? 

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and 

soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like 

other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and 

implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever, 

and is always conscious. 

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal, 

because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A 

child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception, 

according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just 

conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on 

earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or 

election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The 

creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'. 

(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings. 

BIBLE ANSWER. 

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.) 

Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.) 

Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1 

Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.' 

(1 Corinthians 15:46.) 

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is 

composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times 

spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the 

breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the 

word 'being.' 

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from 

the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is 

the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely. 

THE SOUL. 

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground 

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.) 

 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious 

when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess 

consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the 

creature, the man. 

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of 

animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is 

applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men 

of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the 

beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all 

go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing 

befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man 

hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, 

and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.) 

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will 

my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death? 

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man 

has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that 

thing! 

PENALTY OF THE LAW. 

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that 

thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then 

God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was 

this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will 

contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4). 

'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and 

shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?' 

MAN NOT IMMORTAL. 

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and 

immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that 

quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has 

not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear 

him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still 

have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture 

text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.' 

THE FIRST LIE. 

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable 

or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked, 

'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye 

shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis 

3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of 

this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the 

truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age. 

The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should 

shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan 

has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no 

death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the 

Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully 

practiced upon the people. 

WHO IS IMMORTAL? 

"The Bible answers (1 Timothy 6:16), 'God only hath immortality.' There is a wide distinction 

between man in general and one who has become a real Christian. One line of Scriptures 

applies to men in general, and another and different line of Scriptures applies to the real 

followers of Christ. Mark my opponent's argument and see if he rightly divides the word of 

truth and makes this distinction. 

"The New Testament speaks of immortality as a promised reward, not an inherent quality. It is 

the greatest reward that God has to bestow upon his creatures who love and serve him. To the 

Christian, St. Paul says, 'Seek ye immortality.' (Romans 2:7.) A man does not seek for that 

which he already possesses. Again, 'This mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 

15:53.) If man already possessed Immortality he would not be looking forward to the future 

when he would receive that which he already possesses. These Scriptures have no reference to 

the world, but to Christians only. The world of mankind will never possess the quality of 

immortality. To the church the promise is made, 'Be thou faithful unto death and I will give 

thee the crown of life.' The highest element of life, immortality. (Revelation 2:10.) 

THE DEAD UNCONSCIOUS. 

"We have shown that man is a soul; that man-soul is subject to death; that it would be 

impossible for a dead soul or being to be conscious while dead. Now we offer some 

corroborative Scriptural proof establishing this fact beyond the question of a doubt, and we 

believe to the complete satisfaction of every one who believes the Bible. 

WITHOUT MEMORY. 

"When a man dies, according to the Bible, he ceases to remember, nor can he give praise to 

God, 'for in death there is no remembrance of thee'; 'in the grave who shall give thee thanks?' 

(Psalms 6:5.) 'Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee. Shall 

thy loving kindness be declared in the grave or thy faithfulness in destruction?' (Psalms 88:10, 

12.) If these Scriptures be true, then the dead could not be conscious. 

 SPEAK NOT. 

"They also cease speaking. 'The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into 

silence.' Psalms 115-17.) 

NEITHER BREATHE, THINK, FEEL. 

"They also stop breathing, thinking and feeling. 'Thou takest away their breath; they die and 

return to the dust.' (Psalms 104:29.) 'His breath goeth forth, he returneth to the earth; in that 

very day his thoughts perish.' (Psalms 146:4.) A person that cannot think and who knows 

nothing could not be conscious, neither could such an one feel. As an illustration, a man goes to 

the hospital to submit to a serious operation. Before the surgeon begins to use the knife he puts 

his patient under the influence of an anesthetic for the express purpose of producing 

unconsciousness, because he does not wish the patient to feel and thereby suffer pain of the 

operation. 

CEASES TO HATE. 

"We must keep in mind that my opponent and myself have agreed that the Bible is the authority 

by which these questions shall be settled, and mere theory and conjecture should not be 

tolerated. Then let us have some more Bible proof upon the proposition. A dead man ceases to 

love, ceases to hate and ceases to envy. (Ecclesiastes 9:6.) 

"Furthermore, the Scriptures clearly state that he 'knows not anything.' (Ecclesiastes 9:50.) The 

dead stop working; there is no more device and no more scheming. 'Whatsoever thy hand 

findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor 

wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.' (Ecclesiastes 9:10.) 

"I submit that when a man reaches the point where he cannot remember; cannot give thanks; 

cannot speak; cannot breathe; does not think; has no feeling; neither loves, hates or envies; does 

not work; and knows not anything, he must be actually and completely dead, therefore 

unconscious. 

PERISHED. 

"To perish means to be destroyed; to be cut off; to cease to exist. -- Dr. Strong. Therefore, a 

creature that has perished cannot be conscious anywhere. Does man perish when he dies? Let 

the Scriptures answer. 'For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person 

perish, and leave their wealth to others. Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue 

forever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 

Nevertheless, man being in honor abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.' (Psalms 

49:10,12.) 

 WHY MEN DIE. 

"It is a principle of God's law that every perfect, righteous creature is entitled to life. It follows 

that every unrighteous creature has no legal right to life. God enforced his judgment against 

Adam in a gradual manner, viz -- by forcing Adam out of Eden, where the food was perfect, 

and forcing him to obtain his food or sustenance from the unfinished earth, which brought forth 

or produced poisonous foods. As he partook of these poisonous foods, disease was taken into 

his blood and the death process began and was gradual until he was completely dead. Adam 

was legally dead when driven from Eden, actually and completely dead 930 years later. 

"Adam was given power, before he sinned, to transmit the spark of life, or life principle, to his 

children. The judgment of God deprived him of his legal right to life and that judgment pursued 

the power of reproduction; in other words, his offspring were begotten under the disability that 

their father was laboring under, viz.: without legal right to life, and the Father Adam 

transmitted to his offspring the same poison or disease that was in his system. The perfect man 

Adam begot no children. His children he begot after he was under the sentence of death, and 

therefore he transmitted to all of his offspring the disease in his own body. Consequently, by 

operation of God's law, all of Adam's children inherited death and were born legally dead, or 

without a legal right to life. In proof of this we read, in Psalms 51:5, 'Behold, I was shapen in 

iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me'; and again (Romans 5:12). 'As by the 

disobedience of one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, therefore death passed upon 

all men, for all have sinned.' It follows that every man that has died, died because of the 

judgment that was justly placed against Adam and which by inheritance came upon his 

offspring. Every man thus justly dying would, of necessity, remain dead forever unless God 

had made some provision for his redemption and resurrection. 

REDEMPTION. 

"In John 3:16 we read; 'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that 

whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' 

"I submit that these words of the Master conclusively prove that the dead are unconscious until 

the awakening to the resurrection. A creature that perishes could not have consciousness, and in 

this Scripture the statement is made that all would perish forever without the provision God 

made for redemption through Jesus Christ. 

"My opponent must concede, if he believes the Bible, that none would be saved without 

believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This Scripture is positive that all of us would perish. 

"Thus we see we are not limited to the Old Testament to prove that the dead are unconscious 

until the awakening to the resurrection. 

MORE PROOF. 

"St. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:16, 18, says: 'If the dead rise not, then Christ is not raised, and if 

Christ be not raised your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins; then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.' Mark, he says that even Christians are perished, utterly 

destroyed, if there be no resurrection. They are already perished, because dead, and their future 

life is absolutely dependent upon the resurrection. 

"Now I ask my opponent to answer this question: If the dead are perished unless there is a 

resurrection, how would it be possible for that creature to be conscious prior to the time of 

being awakened to the resurrection? Resurrection really means re-creation -- bringing again to 

perfect condition of life. 

WHY RESURRECTION POSSIBLE? 

"While we must leave for a subsequent argument a more detailed discussion of the philosophy 

of the ransom sacrifice, it is necessary here to call attention to some of the cardinal points 

thereof. 

"The perfect man Adam sinned, and thereby forfeited all his right to life. Before his sin the 

entire human race, unborn, was in his loins; that is to say, he had the power to produce the race 

and in this sense the whole race had a life-standing in Adam. When he sinned all his rights 

were lost, hence all of his offspring were born legally dead. The apostle emphasizes this fact 

when he says; 'In Adam all die.' 

"God's law provided that his judgment might be satisfied by the voluntary death of another 

equal to Adam, 'a life for a life.' (Exodus 21:23.) Jesus partook of flesh and blood for the very 

purpose of redeeming man. (Hebrews 2:9.) He stated (Mark 10:45) that he came to give his life 

a ransom (corresponding price). By his death and resurrection from the dead the Lord provided 

the ransom price for Adam and his offspring. This was an absolute guarantee that the entire 

human race, in God's due time, would be released from the condemnation of death and 

awakened to a resurrection. Because the penalty of sin is death and death means cessation of 

life, it was necessary for the man, Christ Jesus, to die in order to redeem mankind from that 

death sentence; and the fact of his death and resurrection, the apostle argues, is conclusive 

proof that all the dead shall come forth. 

DEATH -- SLEEP. 

"Since God has made provision for the awakening of the dead to the resurrection, the Bible 

frequently speaks of death as sleep. Sleep is a symbol of death, and the word is used in that 

sense. A man lies down to sleep and we say he will wake again. And so we say with reference 

to the dead -- 'He shall awake and come again.' As the Prophet Jeremiah beautifully states the 

matter (Jeremiah 31:15-16), 'Thus sayeth the Lord, a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, 

and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, 

because they were not. Thus sayeth the Lord, refrain thy voice from weeping and thine eyes 

from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the 

land of the enemy. Thy children shall come again to their own border." This Scripture proves 

that the dead were out of existence but there was hope for a resurrection. 

 "Both the Old and New Testaments abound with expressions referring to the dead as asleep. 

We read, 1 Kings 2:10, that 'David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.' 

St. Peter says, 'The fathers fell asleep. (2 Peter 3:4.) St. Paul, speaking of those who had seen 

Jesus in the flesh, said, 'The greater part remain until this day, but some are fallen asleep.' (1 

Corinthians 15:6.) Again, 'I would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are 

asleep. Them that sleep in Jesus God will bring forth by Jesus at the resurrection.' (1 

Thessalonians 4:3-14.) 

SLEEPING -- UNCONSCIOUS. 

"Who ever heard of one sleeping soundly and being conscious at the same time? Sleep means 

suspension of the voluntary exercise of the functions of the body and mind. Sleep is used as a 

symbol of death. The reality is more pronounced than the symbol. If the symbol represents 

unconsciousness, the reality does even more so. 

"The death sleep is so absolutely a period of unconsciousness that the awakening one will have 

no knowledge of the lapse of time or the transpiring of events. Now we will prove the truth of 

this statement by the Lord Jesus' own testimony. In John, 11th chapter, verses 1 to 44 (John 

11:1-44), we find this proof, which we paraphrase. Lazarus lived with his two sisters at 

Bethany. Jesus was often entertained at this home and taught the members of the household. 

Lazarus became sick. Word was sent to Jesus of Lazarus' illness, but after he heard it Jesus 

remained in the same place for two days longer. He was preparing to teach mankind a great 

lesson concerning the dead and how they shall be awakened out of the sleep of death. At the 

end of the two days, speaking to his disciples, he said, 'Our friend Lazarus sleepeth.' His 

disciples replied, 'Lord if he sleepeth he doeth well, but Jesus spake of his death, but they 

thought he had spoken of taking rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, 'Lazarus is 

dead.' Thomas suggested that they go to Bethany at once. Jesus and his disciples went. Arriving 

at Bethany they found that Lazarus had been dead and buried for four days. Jesus here 

performed a great miracle, which testified in no uncertain terms as to the condition of the dead 

and proves beyond all doubt that the dead are wholly unconscious until the awakening to the 

resurrection. Mark what he did! He did not call Lazarus out of heaven, nor out of purgatory, nor 

a lake of fire and brimstone, but after giving thanks to God he went to the grave, which was a 

cave in the hillside, and cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth,' and the dead came forth. 

"Let my opponent answer this question if he will: If Lazarus was at all conscious during the 

four days that he was dead and in the grave, why is there not some proof of it some-where to be 

found in the Bible? Jesus was here showing how the dead are to be awakened out of the sleep 

of death. It was of the greatest importance, if Lazarus had been conscious, that some proof of 

that fact might have been recorded. The fact that nothing is said about his being conscious, 

taken in con-junction with numerous other Scriptures that show that the dead are wholly 

unconscious, is conclusive proof that Lazarus was unconscious for four days while dead and 

likewise conclusive proof that all the dead are unconscious until the moment of awakening. 

 THE PROPOSITION. 

"The proposition under discussion as stated is a clear admission that the dead are unconscious 

for the reason it assumes -- that there is to be an awakening. Mark the words thereof, 'that the 

dead are unconscious from the moment of death until the moment of awakening to the 

resurrection of the dead.' If the dead were already conscious it follows that they would already 

be awake and therefore there could be no awakening; hence, my opponent admits by the 

statement of the proposition that his contention is wrong. 

"Jesus points out that all the dead are to be awakened to the resurrection. (John 5:28-29.) 

Awakened from where? we ask. From heaven? Purgatory? An intermediate state? Hell, fire and 

brimstone, or where? Let my opponent answer, but before he answers let God's word answer, 

which says, "They that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.' (Daniel 12:2.) likewise conclusive proof that all the dead are unconscious until the moment of awakening. 

WHAT IS TO BE AWAKENED. 

"What, then, is to be awakened to the resurrection, the soul, body or what? My opponent will 

tell you that the soul is still alive, therefore awake; hence could not be awakened. To be 

consistent, he will be compelled to say that it is the body thatis to be awakened. Then we ask 

him, if the soul is alive without a body and is enjoying life, and the same old body that it once 

had is to be awakened, why cumber it with that body? Such a contention is wholly 

unreasonable. These old bodies have given us a great deal of trouble. Most men who live to 

maturity, or beyond that, have bodies that are very ugly, and I am sure it would not be a joy to 

think about carrying around such a body to endless ages. 

"But how absurd the proposition that it is this old body that is to be awakened! How would that 

body ever be gotten together? To illustrate: A man dies and is buried. Later an orange tree is 

planted upon his grave. The roots, running down into the grave, absorb all the chemical 

elements of that body and these, in turn, are transmitted to the bud that forms the fruit. The fruit 

matures. Some of it is fed to pigs and these are shipped away and consumed by man, other 

parts of the oranges are shipped to different parts of the earth, and thus the chemical elements 

of that body are scattered everywhere. The further we pursue this illustration, the more absurd 

bodily resurrection seems. We are not surprised, then, that St. Paul says, in 1 Corinthians 

15:35-38, 'Some men will say, how are the dead raised up and with what body to they come? 

Thou fool; that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die, and that which thou sowest, 

thou sowest not the body that shall be * * but God giveth it a body as it pleaseth him.' It is not 

at all the body that is to be resurrected, and this is clearly shown by the words above quoted, 

'God giveth it a body.' What is the 'it?' Mark you, 'it' is that which is resurrected. If my 

opponent says the body is resurrected and then God gives it a body, it follows that it has two 

bodies. 

"When we get a clear understanding of God's plan, this Scripture is entirely clarified. God 

formed man of the dust of the earth, breathed into his nostrils, and man became a living soul. 

The soul was the it. In proof of that mark the words 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' 

Therefore, God made the soul the it. The soul, it dies, and St. Paul says the soul is resurrected, 

and God gives it -- the soul, the being, the man, the creature -- a body as it pleaseth him. And then, in the context, he points out that some will receive spiritual bodies and others natural 

bodies. 

"We submit, upon the whole, that the Scriptures clearly teach that man is a soul; that the soul is 

mortal, subject to God's law; that the soul means man, the creature; the soul (man, creature) 

dies, and would forever remain out of existence, except that God has made provision for 

redemption, awakening and resurrection, and the Scriptures with one accord conclusively prove 

that the soul is unconscious from the moment of death to the moment of awakening to the 

resurrection. 

"Keeping clearly in mind these great truths, the debate tomorrow evening will demonstrate, 

likewise clearly, that God is not a fiend, as has been charged, but a great God of love, justice, 

wisdom and power. 

PROPOSITION. 

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and 

the moment of awakening to the resurrection. 

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not 

affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find: 

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and 

continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious. 

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of 

necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the 

opposite of sleep is to be awake and 

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not 

conscious. 

DEFINITIONS. 

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death. 

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will 

be conceded by my opponent. 

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges. 

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased 

to perform their functions. 

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am 

going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct 

ones. 

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or 

mental operations; possessing knowledge. 

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of 

mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything. 

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument. 

 WHAT IS MAN? 

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is 

the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being, 

or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal? 

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and 

soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like 

other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and 

implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever, 

and is always conscious. 

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal, 

because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A 

child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception, 

according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just 

conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on 

earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or 

election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The 

creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'. 

(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings. 

BIBLE ANSWER. 

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.) 

Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.) 

Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1 

Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.' 

(1 Corinthians 15:46.) 

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is 

composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times 

spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the 

breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the 

word 'being.' 

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from 

the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is 

the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely. 

THE SOUL. 

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground 

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.) 

 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious 

when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess 

consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the 

creature, the man. 

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of 

animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is 

applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men 

of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the 

beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all 

go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing 

befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man 

hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, 

and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.) 

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will 

my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death? 

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man 

has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that 

thing! 

PENALTY OF THE LAW. 

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that 

thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then 

God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was 

this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will 

contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4). 

'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and 

shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?' 

MAN NOT IMMORTAL. 

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and 

immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that 

quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has 

not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear 

him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still 

have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture 

text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.' 

THE FIRST LIE. 

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable 

or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked, 

'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye 

shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis 

3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of 

this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the 

truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age. 

The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should 

shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan 

has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no 

death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the 

Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully 

practiced upon the people. 

WHO IS IMMORTAL? 

"The Bible answers (1 Timothy 6:16), 'God only hath immortality.' There is a wide distinction 

between man in general and one who has become a real Christian. One line of Scriptures 

applies to men in general, and another and different line of Scriptures applies to the real 

followers of Christ. Mark my opponent's argument and see if he rightly divides the word of 

truth and makes this distinction. 

"The New Testament speaks of immortality as a promised reward, not an inherent quality. It is 

the greatest reward that God has to bestow upon his creatures who love and serve him. To the 

Christian, St. Paul says, 'Seek ye immortality.' (Romans 2:7.) A man does not seek for that 

which he already possesses. Again, 'This mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 

15:53.) If man already possessed Immortality he would not be looking forward to the future 

when he would receive that which he already possesses. These Scriptures have no reference to 

the world, but to Christians only. The world of mankind will never possess the quality of 

immortality. To the church the promise is made, 'Be thou faithful unto death and I will give 

thee the crown of life.' The highest element of life, immortality. (Revelation 2:10.) 

THE DEAD UNCONSCIOUS. 

"We have shown that man is a soul; that man-soul is subject to death; that it would be 

impossible for a dead soul or being to be conscious while dead. Now we offer some 

corroborative Scriptural proof establishing this fact beyond the question of a doubt, and we 

believe to the complete satisfaction of every one who believes the Bible. 

WITHOUT MEMORY. 

"When a man dies, according to the Bible, he ceases to remember, nor can he give praise to 

God, 'for in death there is no remembrance of thee'; 'in the grave who shall give thee thanks?' 

(Psalms 6:5.) 'Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee. Shall 

thy loving kindness be declared in the grave or thy faithfulness in destruction?' (Psalms 88:10, 

12.) If these Scriptures be true, then the dead could not be conscious. 

 SPEAK NOT. 

"They also cease speaking. 'The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into 

silence.' Psalms 115-17.) 

NEITHER BREATHE, THINK, FEEL. 

"They also stop breathing, thinking and feeling. 'Thou takest away their breath; they die and 

return to the dust.' (Psalms 104:29.) 'His breath goeth forth, he returneth to the earth; in that 

very day his thoughts perish.' (Psalms 146:4.) A person that cannot think and who knows 

nothing could not be conscious, neither could such an one feel. As an illustration, a man goes to 

the hospital to submit to a serious operation. Before the surgeon begins to use the knife he puts 

his patient under the influence of an anesthetic for the express purpose of producing 

unconsciousness, because he does not wish the patient to feel and thereby suffer pain of the 

operation. 

CEASES TO HATE. 

"We must keep in mind that my opponent and myself have agreed that the Bible is the authority 

by which these questions shall be settled, and mere theory and conjecture should not be 

tolerated. Then let us have some more Bible proof upon the proposition. A dead man ceases to 

love, ceases to hate and ceases to envy. (Ecclesiastes 9:6.) 

"Furthermore, the Scriptures clearly state that he 'knows not anything.' (Ecclesiastes 9:50.) The 

dead stop working; there is no more device and no more scheming. 'Whatsoever thy hand 

findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor 

wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.' (Ecclesiastes 9:10.) 

"I submit that when a man reaches the point where he cannot remember; cannot give thanks; 

cannot speak; cannot breathe; does not think; has no feeling; neither loves, hates or envies; does 

not work; and knows not anything, he must be actually and completely dead, therefore 

unconscious. 

PERISHED. 

"To perish means to be destroyed; to be cut off; to cease to exist. -- Dr. Strong. Therefore, a 

creature that has perished cannot be conscious anywhere. Does man perish when he dies? Let 

the Scriptures answer. 'For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person 

perish, and leave their wealth to others. Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue 

forever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 

Nevertheless, man being in honor abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.' (Psalms 

49:10,12.) 

 WHY MEN DIE. 

"It is a principle of God's law that every perfect, righteous creature is entitled to life. It follows 

that every unrighteous creature has no legal right to life. God enforced his judgment against 

Adam in a gradual manner, viz -- by forcing Adam out of Eden, where the food was perfect, 

and forcing him to obtain his food or sustenance from the unfinished earth, which brought forth 

or produced poisonous foods. As he partook of these poisonous foods, disease was taken into 

his blood and the death process began and was gradual until he was completely dead. Adam 

was legally dead when driven from Eden, actually and completely dead 930 years later. 

"Adam was given power, before he sinned, to transmit the spark of life, or life principle, to his 

children. The judgment of God deprived him of his legal right to life and that judgment pursued 

the power of reproduction; in other words, his offspring were begotten under the disability that 

their father was laboring under, viz.: without legal right to life, and the Father Adam 

transmitted to his offspring the same poison or disease that was in his system. The perfect man 

Adam begot no children. His children he begot after he was under the sentence of death, and 

therefore he transmitted to all of his offspring the disease in his own body. Consequently, by 

operation of God's law, all of Adam's children inherited death and were born legally dead, or 

without a legal right to life. In proof of this we read, in Psalms 51:5, 'Behold, I was shapen in 

iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me'; and again (Romans 5:12). 'As by the 

disobedience of one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, therefore death passed upon 

all men, for all have sinned.' It follows that every man that has died, died because of the 

judgment that was justly placed against Adam and which by inheritance came upon his 

offspring. Every man thus justly dying would, of necessity, remain dead forever unless God 

had made some provision for his redemption and resurrection. 

REDEMPTION. 

"In John 3:16 we read; 'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that 

whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' 

"I submit that these words of the Master conclusively prove that the dead are unconscious until 

the awakening to the resurrection. A creature that perishes could not have consciousness, and in 

this Scripture the statement is made that all would perish forever without the provision God 

made for redemption through Jesus Christ. 

"My opponent must concede, if he believes the Bible, that none would be saved without 

believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This Scripture is positive that all of us would perish. 

"Thus we see we are not limited to the Old Testament to prove that the dead are unconscious 

until the awakening to the resurrection. 

MORE PROOF. 

"St. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:16, 18, says: 'If the dead rise not, then Christ is not raised, and if 

Christ be not raised your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins; then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.' Mark, he says that even Christians are perished, utterly 

destroyed, if there be no resurrection. They are already perished, because dead, and their future 

life is absolutely dependent upon the resurrection. 

"Now I ask my opponent to answer this question: If the dead are perished unless there is a 

resurrection, how would it be possible for that creature to be conscious prior to the time of 

being awakened to the resurrection? Resurrection really means re-creation -- bringing again to 

perfect condition of life. 

WHY RESURRECTION POSSIBLE? 

"While we must leave for a subsequent argument a more detailed discussion of the philosophy 

of the ransom sacrifice, it is necessary here to call attention to some of the cardinal points 

thereof. 

"The perfect man Adam sinned, and thereby forfeited all his right to life. Before his sin the 

entire human race, unborn, was in his loins; that is to say, he had the power to produce the race 

and in this sense the whole race had a life-standing in Adam. When he sinned all his rights 

were lost, hence all of his offspring were born legally dead. The apostle emphasizes this fact 

when he says; 'In Adam all die.' 

"God's law provided that his judgment might be satisfied by the voluntary death of another 

equal to Adam, 'a life for a life.' (Exodus 21:23.) Jesus partook of flesh and blood for the very 

purpose of redeeming man. (Hebrews 2:9.) He stated (Mark 10:45) that he came to give his life 

a ransom (corresponding price). By his death and resurrection from the dead the Lord provided 

the ransom price for Adam and his offspring. This was an absolute guarantee that the entire 

human race, in God's due time, would be released from the condemnation of death and 

awakened to a resurrection. Because the penalty of sin is death and death means cessation of 

life, it was necessary for the man, Christ Jesus, to die in order to redeem mankind from that 

death sentence; and the fact of his death and resurrection, the apostle argues, is conclusive 

proof that all the dead shall come forth. 

DEATH -- SLEEP. 

"Since God has made provision for the awakening of the dead to the resurrection, the Bible 

frequently speaks of death as sleep. Sleep is a symbol of death, and the word is used in that 

sense. A man lies down to sleep and we say he will wake again. And so we say with reference 

to the dead -- 'He shall awake and come again.' As the Prophet Jeremiah beautifully states the 

matter (Jeremiah 31:15-16), 'Thus sayeth the Lord, a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, 

and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, 

because they were not. Thus sayeth the Lord, refrain thy voice from weeping and thine eyes 

from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the 

land of the enemy. Thy children shall come again to their own border." This Scripture proves 

that the dead were out of existence but there was hope for a resurrection. 

 "Both the Old and New Testaments abound with expressions referring to the dead as asleep. 

We read, 1 Kings 2:10, that 'David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.' 

St. Peter says, 'The fathers fell asleep. (2 Peter 3:4.) St. Paul, speaking of those who had seen 

Jesus in the flesh, said, 'The greater part remain until this day, but some are fallen asleep.' (1 

Corinthians 15:6.) Again, 'I would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are 

asleep. Them that sleep in Jesus God will bring forth by Jesus at the resurrection.' (1 

Thessalonians 4:3-14.) 

SLEEPING -- UNCONSCIOUS. 

"Who ever heard of one sleeping soundly and being conscious at the same time? Sleep means 

suspension of the voluntary exercise of the functions of the body and mind. Sleep is used as a 

symbol of death. The reality is more pronounced than the symbol. If the symbol represents 

unconsciousness, the reality does even more so. 

"The death sleep is so absolutely a period of unconsciousness that the awakening one will have 

no knowledge of the lapse of time or the transpiring of events. Now we will prove the truth of 

this statement by the Lord Jesus' own testimony. In John, 11th chapter, verses 1 to 44 (John 

11:1-44), we find this proof, which we paraphrase. Lazarus lived with his two sisters at 

Bethany. Jesus was often entertained at this home and taught the members of the household. 

Lazarus became sick. Word was sent to Jesus of Lazarus' illness, but after he heard it Jesus 

remained in the same place for two days longer. He was preparing to teach mankind a great 

lesson concerning the dead and how they shall be awakened out of the sleep of death. At the 

end of the two days, speaking to his disciples, he said, 'Our friend Lazarus sleepeth.' His 

disciples replied, 'Lord if he sleepeth he doeth well, but Jesus spake of his death, but they 

thought he had spoken of taking rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, 'Lazarus is 

dead.' Thomas suggested that they go to Bethany at once. Jesus and his disciples went. Arriving 

at Bethany they found that Lazarus had been dead and buried for four days. Jesus here 

performed a great miracle, which testified in no uncertain terms as to the condition of the dead 

and proves beyond all doubt that the dead are wholly unconscious until the awakening to the 

resurrection. Mark what he did! He did not call Lazarus out of heaven, nor out of purgatory, nor 

a lake of fire and brimstone, but after giving thanks to God he went to the grave, which was a 

cave in the hillside, and cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth,' and the dead came forth. 

"Let my opponent answer this question if he will: If Lazarus was at all conscious during the 

four days that he was dead and in the grave, why is there not some proof of it some-where to be 

found in the Bible? Jesus was here showing how the dead are to be awakened out of the sleep 

of death. It was of the greatest importance, if Lazarus had been conscious, that some proof of 

that fact might have been recorded. The fact that nothing is said about his being conscious, 

taken in con-junction with numerous other Scriptures that show that the dead are wholly 

unconscious, is conclusive proof that Lazarus was unconscious for four days while dead and 

likewise conclusive proof that all the dead are unconscious until the moment of awakening. 

 THE PROPOSITION. 

"The proposition under discussion as stated is a clear admission that the dead are unconscious 

for the reason it assumes -- that there is to be an awakening. Mark the words thereof, 'that the 

dead are unconscious from the moment of death until the moment of awakening to the 

resurrection of the dead.' If the dead were already conscious it follows that they would already 

be awake and therefore there could be no awakening; hence, my opponent admits by the 

statement of the proposition that his contention is wrong. 

"Jesus points out that all the dead are to be awakened to the resurrection. (John 5:28-29.) 

Awakened from where? we ask. From heaven? Purgatory? An intermediate state? Hell, fire and 

brimstone, or where? Let my opponent answer, but before he answers let God's word answer, 

which says, "They that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.' (Daniel 12:2.) 

WHAT IS TO BE AWAKENED. 

"What, then, is to be awakened to the resurrection, the soul, body or what? My opponent will 

tell you that the soul is still alive, therefore awake; hence could not be awakened. To be 

consistent, he will be compelled to say that it is the body thatis to be awakened. Then we ask 

him, if the soul is alive without a body and is enjoying life, and the same old body that it once 

had is to be awakened, why cumber it with that body? Such a contention is wholly 

unreasonable. These old bodies have given us a great deal of trouble. Most men who live to 

maturity, or beyond that, have bodies that are very ugly, and I am sure it would not be a joy to 

think about carrying around such a body to endless ages. 

"But how absurd the proposition that it is this old body that is to be awakened! How would that 

body ever be gotten together? To illustrate: A man dies and is buried. Later an orange tree is 

planted upon his grave. The roots, running down into the grave, absorb all the chemical 

elements of that body and these, in turn, are transmitted to the bud that forms the fruit. The fruit 

matures. Some of it is fed to pigs and these are shipped away and consumed by man, other 

parts of the oranges are shipped to different parts of the earth, and thus the chemical elements 

of that body are scattered everywhere. The further we pursue this illustration, the more absurd 

bodily resurrection seems. We are not surprised, then, that St. Paul says, in 1 Corinthians 

15:35-38, 'Some men will say, how are the dead raised up and with what body to they come? 

Thou fool; that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die, and that which thou sowest, 

thou sowest not the body that shall be * * but God giveth it a body as it pleaseth him.' It is not 

at all the body that is to be resurrected, and this is clearly shown by the words above quoted, 

'God giveth it a body.' What is the 'it?' Mark you, 'it' is that which is resurrected. If my 

opponent says the body is resurrected and then God gives it a body, it follows that it has two 

bodies. 

"When we get a clear understanding of God's plan, this Scripture is entirely clarified. God 

formed man of the dust of the earth, breathed into his nostrils, and man became a living soul. 

The soul was the it. In proof of that mark the words 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' 

Therefore, God made the soul the it. The soul, it dies, and St. Paul says the soul is resurrected, 

and God gives it -- the soul, the being, the man, the creature -- a body as it pleaseth him. And then, in the context, he points out that some will receive spiritual bodies and others natural 

bodies. 

"We submit, upon the whole, that the Scriptures clearly teach that man is a soul; that the soul is 

mortal, subject to God's law; that the soul means man, the creature; the soul (man, creature) 

dies, and would forever remain out of existence, except that God has made provision for 

redemption, awakening and resurrection, and the Scriptures with one accord conclusively prove 

that the soul is unconscious from the moment of death to the moment of awakening to the 

resurrection. 

"Keeping clearly in mind these great truths, the debate tomorrow evening will demonstrate, 

likewise clearly, that God is not a fiend, as has been charged, but a great God of love, justice, 

wisdom and power. 

RICH MAN AND LAZARUS. 

"My opponent will cite the rich man and Lazarus in proof that the dead are conscious after 

death and before awakening to the resurrection. A careful examination of this text shows that it 

does not sustain his theory. I am going to ask him now, when he does cite that text, to answer 

this question, Is that scriptural statement to be taken literally or symbolically? Was Jesus 

describing a reality that then existed, or was he giving a parable to teach some lesson? I don't 

care which way he answers it, he will be in a hole. If he answers, 'It is to be taken literally,' then 

you will see the utter absurdity it expresses. If he answers. 'It is a parable,' then it absolutely 

disproves his position. 

PROPOSITION. 

"The scriptures clearly teach that the dead are unconscious between the moment of death and 

the moment of awakening to the resurrection. 

"This proposition I affirm, and my opponent denies the truth thereof. If this proposition is not 

affirmatively true, as stated, then we must find: 

"1. That man, after death, continues mentally active; that is to say -- possesses knowledge and 

continues to exercise his mental functions, therefore conscious. 

"2. We must find that there can be no awakening, for the reason that a conscious person must of 

necessity be awake. Sleep means a temporary loss of mental control, unconsciousness, and the 

opposite of sleep is to be awake and 

"3. We must find that there is no actual or real death, because persons actually dead are not 

conscious. 

DEFINITIONS. 

"The word 'Dead' is used in two senses: (a) Legal death, and (b) Actual death. 

"The proposition we are here discussing is treated from the standpoint of actual death. That will 

be conceded by my opponent. 

"Legal death means to be utterly cut off from certain or fixed rights and privileges. 

"Actual death means destitute of life, inanimate, the state in which the vital organs have ceased 

to perform their functions. 

"These are the definitions given by our best lexicographers -- Webster and others -- and I am 

going to prove in this argument that these are the Bible definitions and therefore the correct 

ones. 

"To be conscious means to have or possess the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or 

mental operations; possessing knowledge. 

"Unconscious means, of course, the opposite of conscious; that is to say, having no power of 

mental perception, having no knowledge, not knowing or regarding anything. 

"That these are the correct Bible definitions I promise to prove in this argument. 

 WHAT IS MAN? 

"MAN is the subject of this discussion. Is man conscious or unconscious when dead? That is 

the real issue joined here. Pertinent, then, is the question, What is man? Is man a divine being, 

or a human being? Is he mortal, or immortal? 

"My opponent will tell you that man is a composite creature of three parts -- body, spirit and 

soul; that the spirit and soul mean practically the same thing; that man is begotten and born like 

other animals, but at the time of conception God intervenes in some mysterious way and 

implants in that body a spirit or soul; that that soul is immortal, can never die, lives on forever, 

and is always conscious. 

"If that condition be true it means that God is responsible for every idiot, every born criminal, 

because these are begotten under conditions over which they have absolutely no control. A 

child is begotten by drunken and debauched parents, and at the very moment of conception, 

according to my opponent's position, God intervenes and implants in the creature just 

conceived, an immortal spark. The child is born, necessarily, a depraved creature. It lives on 

earth a while, dies, and must spend eternity in this miserable condition without choice or 

election on its part. Such a theory is wholly unreasonable. God is not unreasonable. The 

creature I have just described is imperfect. God makes nothing imperfect. 'His work is perfect'. 

(Deuteronomy 32-4.) God is in no wise responsible for the life of imperfect or depraved beings. 

BIBLE ANSWER. 

"The Bible declares, 'Man is of the earth earthly.' He is not spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47.) 

Man is a human being. He is not a spirit being. A spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39.) 

Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Human, or natural beings, have human or natural bodies. (1 

Corinthians 15:44.) Adam the first man was not spiritual. 'That was not first which is spiritual.' 

(1 Corinthians 15:46.) 

"Man is the highest order of animal life, the crowning glory of God's earthly creation. He is 

composed of body and breath of life, like other animals. The word 'breath' of life is some-times 

spoken of as 'spirit' of life, meaning life principle, or that which animates. The uniting of the 

breath of life with the body produces the soul, or being. The word 'soul' is synonymous to the 

word 'being.' 

"My opponent will not for one moment contend that the body of man is conscious aside from 

the breath of life, nor will he contend that the breath of life is conscious. He will say that it is 

the soul that is conscious after death. We desire to meet this issue squarely. 

THE SOUL. 

"What is the soul? The Scriptures answer: 'The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground 

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Tile, and man became a living soul.' (Genesis 2:7.) 

 "Was the dust of the earth conscious before formed into a body? No! Was the body conscious 

when formed before it received the breath of life? It was not! Did the breath of life possess 

consciousness? Certainly not! What, then, is conscious? We answer, the soul, or being; the 

creature, the man. 

"Every creature that breathes is a soul. God applied the words 'living soul' to the lower order of 

animals long before the creation of man. (Genesis 1:20 and 30 - margin.) The word 'soul' is 

applied to both men and beasts in Numbers 31:28. 'And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men 

of war which went out to battle; one soul of five hundred, both of the persons and of the 

beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.' God, in his word, declares that all die alike and all 

go to the same place, 'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing 

befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man 

hath no preeminence above a beast, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, 

and all turn to dust again.' (Ecclesiastes 3:10, 20.) 

"Can my opponent, in the face of this, deny that the ox is a soul, when the Bible says it is? Will 

my opponent for one moment contend that an ox is conscious after death? 

"A soul is a moving, breathing, sentient being that has senses and exercises the same. No man 

has a soul, but every man is a soul. Mark the distinction between having a thing and being that 

thing! 

PENALTY OF THE LAW. 

"God said to Adam, 'Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for in the day that 

thou eatest thereof dying, thou shalt die.' (Genesis 2:17)-margin. If the soul is immortal, then 

God did not mean what he said, because an immortal creature could not be put to death. Was 

this announced penalty of the law to apply to the body only, or to the soul? My opponent will 

contend that the body died and the soul continued to live, but the Bible answers (Ezekiel 18:4). 

'The soul that sinneth, it shall die, and again, in Psalms 89:48, 'What man is he that liveth and 

shall not see death, shall he deliver his soul from the grave?' 

MAN NOT IMMORTAL. 

"Man is a soul. Man dies, therefore the soul dies. There is a distinction between eternal life and 

immortal life. A creature may live eternally and yet not be immortal. Immortality means that 

quality of life not subject to cessation; means that the creature cannot die and God, even, has 

not the power to destroy such an one. Has God power to destroy the soul? Jesus answers, 'Fear 

him who is able to destroy soul and body.' (Matthew 10:28.) Can a soul that is destroyed still 

have consciousness? Impossible! My opponent will not be able to produce even one Scripture 

text which says, 'Man has an immortal soul.' 

THE FIRST LIE. 

"Jesus, who spake with authority, pointed out that Satan is the author of the theory of undieable 

or immortal souls, and that this was the beginning of lies. God had definitely said to man, 'Ye shall surely die.' 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Satan appeared to Mother Eve and asked, 

'Why do you not eat of the fruit in the midst of Eden?' to which Eve replied, 'God has said, "Ye 

shall not eat thereof lest ye die,'" to which Satan rejoined, 'Ye shall surely not die.' (Genesis 

3:1-5.) Here Satan told the first lie, and from it all other lies have had their birth. In proof of 

this Jesus states, 'Satan was the father of lies, a liar from the beginning and abode not in the 

truth.' (John 8:44.) Again, we read in the Scriptures concerning Satan, 'He is the god of this age. 

The god of this age hath blinded the minds of men lest the light of the glorious gospel should 

shine unto them.' (2 Corinthians 4:4.) From the day of Mother Eve's deception until now, Satan 

has been blinding the minds of men to God's glorious plan by this same falsehood -- there is no 

death, the dead are conscious. The theory that the dead are conscious is not supported by the 

Scriptures, but is based upon Satan's false-hood and the deception he has so successfully 

practiced upon the people. 

WHO IS IMMORTAL? 

"The Bible answers (1 Timothy 6:16), 'God only hath immortality.' There is a wide distinction 

between man in general and one who has become a real Christian. One line of Scriptures 

applies to men in general, and another and different line of Scriptures applies to the real 

followers of Christ. Mark my opponent's argument and see if he rightly divides the word of 

truth and makes this distinction. 

"The New Testament speaks of immortality as a promised reward, not an inherent quality. It is 

the greatest reward that God has to bestow upon his creatures who love and serve him. To the 

Christian, St. Paul says, 'Seek ye immortality.' (Romans 2:7.) A man does not seek for that 

which he already possesses. Again, 'This mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 

15:53.) If man already possessed Immortality he would not be looking forward to the future 

when he would receive that which he already possesses. These Scriptures have no reference to 

the world, but to Christians only. The world of mankind will never possess the quality of 

immortality. To the church the promise is made, 'Be thou faithful unto death and I will give 

thee the crown of life.' The highest element of life, immortality. (Revelation 2:10.) 

THE DEAD UNCONSCIOUS. 

"We have shown that man is a soul; that man-soul is subject to death; that it would be 

impossible for a dead soul or being to be conscious while dead. Now we offer some 

corroborative Scriptural proof establishing this fact beyond the question of a doubt, and we 

believe to the complete satisfaction of every one who believes the Bible. 

WITHOUT MEMORY. 

"When a man dies, according to the Bible, he ceases to remember, nor can he give praise to 

God, 'for in death there is no remembrance of thee'; 'in the grave who shall give thee thanks?' 

(Psalms 6:5.) 'Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee. Shall 

thy loving kindness be declared in the grave or thy faithfulness in destruction?' (Psalms 88:10, 

12.) If these Scriptures be true, then the dead could not be conscious. 

 SPEAK NOT. 

"They also cease speaking. 'The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into 

silence.' Psalms 115-17.) 

NEITHER BREATHE, THINK, FEEL. 

"They also stop breathing, thinking and feeling. 'Thou takest away their breath; they die and 

return to the dust.' (Psalms 104:29.) 'His breath goeth forth, he returneth to the earth; in that 

very day his thoughts perish.' (Psalms 146:4.) A person that cannot think and who knows 

nothing could not be conscious, neither could such an one feel. As an illustration, a man goes to 

the hospital to submit to a serious operation. Before the surgeon begins to use the knife he puts 

his patient under the influence of an anesthetic for the express purpose of producing 

unconsciousness, because he does not wish the patient to feel and thereby suffer pain of the 

operation. 

CEASES TO HATE. 

"We must keep in mind that my opponent and myself have agreed that the Bible is the authority 

by which these questions shall be settled, and mere theory and conjecture should not be 

tolerated. Then let us have some more Bible proof upon the proposition. A dead man ceases to 

love, ceases to hate and ceases to envy. (Ecclesiastes 9:6.) 

"Furthermore, the Scriptures clearly state that he 'knows not anything.' (Ecclesiastes 9:50.) The 

dead stop working; there is no more device and no more scheming. 'Whatsoever thy hand 

findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor 

wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.' (Ecclesiastes 9:10.) 

"I submit that when a man reaches the point where he cannot remember; cannot give thanks; 

cannot speak; cannot breathe; does not think; has no feeling; neither loves, hates or envies; does 

not work; and knows not anything, he must be actually and completely dead, therefore 

unconscious. 

PERISHED. 

"To perish means to be destroyed; to be cut off; to cease to exist. -- Dr. Strong. Therefore, a 

creature that has perished cannot be conscious anywhere. Does man perish when he dies? Let 

the Scriptures answer. 'For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person 

perish, and leave their wealth to others. Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue 

forever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 

Nevertheless, man being in honor abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.' (Psalms 

49:10,12.) 

 WHY MEN DIE. 

"It is a principle of God's law that every perfect, righteous creature is entitled to life. It follows 

that every unrighteous creature has no legal right to life. God enforced his judgment against 

Adam in a gradual manner, viz -- by forcing Adam out of Eden, where the food was perfect, 

and forcing him to obtain his food or sustenance from the unfinished earth, which brought forth 

or produced poisonous foods. As he partook of these poisonous foods, disease was taken into 

his blood and the death process began and was gradual until he was completely dead. Adam 

was legally dead when driven from Eden, actually and completely dead 930 years later. 

"Adam was given power, before he sinned, to transmit the spark of life, or life principle, to his 

children. The judgment of God deprived him of his legal right to life and that judgment pursued 

the power of reproduction; in other words, his offspring were begotten under the disability that 

their father was laboring under, viz.: without legal right to life, and the Father Adam 

transmitted to his offspring the same poison or disease that was in his system. The perfect man 

Adam begot no children. His children he begot after he was under the sentence of death, and 

therefore he transmitted to all of his offspring the disease in his own body. Consequently, by 

operation of God's law, all of Adam's children inherited death and were born legally dead, or 

without a legal right to life. In proof of this we read, in Psalms 51:5, 'Behold, I was shapen in 

iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me'; and again (Romans 5:12). 'As by the 

disobedience of one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, therefore death passed upon 

all men, for all have sinned.' It follows that every man that has died, died because of the 

judgment that was justly placed against Adam and which by inheritance came upon his 

offspring. Every man thus justly dying would, of necessity, remain dead forever unless God 

had made some provision for his redemption and resurrection. 

REDEMPTION. 

"In John 3:16 we read; 'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that 

whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' 

"I submit that these words of the Master conclusively prove that the dead are unconscious until 

the awakening to the resurrection. A creature that perishes could not have consciousness, and in 

this Scripture the statement is made that all would perish forever without the provision God 

made for redemption through Jesus Christ. 

"My opponent must concede, if he believes the Bible, that none would be saved without 

believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This Scripture is positive that all of us would perish. 

"Thus we see we are not limited to the Old Testament to prove that the dead are unconscious 

until the awakening to the resurrection. 

MORE PROOF. 

"St. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:16, 18, says: 'If the dead rise not, then Christ is not raised, and if 

Christ be not raised your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins; then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.' Mark, he says that even Christians are perished, utterly 

destroyed, if there be no resurrection. They are already perished, because dead, and their future 

life is absolutely dependent upon the resurrection. 

"Now I ask my opponent to answer this question: If the dead are perished unless there is a 

resurrection, how would it be possible for that creature to be conscious prior to the time of 

being awakened to the resurrection? Resurrection really means re-creation -- bringing again to 

perfect condition of life. 

WHY RESURRECTION POSSIBLE? 

"While we must leave for a subsequent argument a more detailed discussion of the philosophy 

of the ransom sacrifice, it is necessary here to call attention to some of the cardinal points 

thereof. 

"The perfect man Adam sinned, and thereby forfeited all his right to life. Before his sin the 

entire human race, unborn, was in his loins; that is to say, he had the power to produce the race 

and in this sense the whole race had a life-standing in Adam. When he sinned all his rights 

were lost, hence all of his offspring were born legally dead. The apostle emphasizes this fact 

when he says; 'In Adam all die.' 

"God's law provided that his judgment might be satisfied by the voluntary death of another 

equal to Adam, 'a life for a life.' (Exodus 21:23.) Jesus partook of flesh and blood for the very 

purpose of redeeming man. (Hebrews 2:9.) He stated (Mark 10:45) that he came to give his life 

a ransom (corresponding price). By his death and resurrection from the dead the Lord provided 

the ransom price for Adam and his offspring. This was an absolute guarantee that the entire 

human race, in God's due time, would be released from the condemnation of death and 

awakened to a resurrection. Because the penalty of sin is death and death means cessation of 

life, it was necessary for the man, Christ Jesus, to die in order to redeem mankind from that 

death sentence; and the fact of his death and resurrection, the apostle argues, is conclusive 

proof that all the dead shall come forth. 

DEATH -- SLEEP. 

"Since God has made provision for the awakening of the dead to the resurrection, the Bible 

frequently speaks of death as sleep. Sleep is a symbol of death, and the word is used in that 

sense. A man lies down to sleep and we say he will wake again. And so we say with reference 

to the dead -- 'He shall awake and come again.' As the Prophet Jeremiah beautifully states the 

matter (Jeremiah 31:15-16), 'Thus sayeth the Lord, a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, 

and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, 

because they were not. Thus sayeth the Lord, refrain thy voice from weeping and thine eyes 

from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the 

land of the enemy. Thy children shall come again to their own border." This Scripture proves 

that the dead were out of existence but there was hope for a resurrection. 

 "Both the Old and New Testaments abound with expressions referring to the dead as asleep. 

We read, 1 Kings 2:10, that 'David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.' 

St. Peter says, 'The fathers fell asleep. (2 Peter 3:4.) St. Paul, speaking of those who had seen 

Jesus in the flesh, said, 'The greater part remain until this day, but some are fallen asleep.' (1 

Corinthians 15:6.) Again, 'I would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are 

asleep. Them that sleep in Jesus God will bring forth by Jesus at the resurrection.' (1 

Thessalonians 4:3-14.) 

SLEEPING -- UNCONSCIOUS. 

"Who ever heard of one sleeping soundly and being conscious at the same time? Sleep means 

suspension of the voluntary exercise of the functions of the body and mind. Sleep is used as a 

symbol of death. The reality is more pronounced than the symbol. If the symbol represents 

unconsciousness, the reality does even more so. 

"The death sleep is so absolutely a period of unconsciousness that the awakening one will have 

no knowledge of the lapse of time or the transpiring of events. Now we will prove the truth of 

this statement by the Lord Jesus' own testimony. In John, 11th chapter, verses 1 to 44 (John 

11:1-44), we find this proof, which we paraphrase. Lazarus lived with his two sisters at 

Bethany. Jesus was often entertained at this home and taught the members of the household. 

Lazarus became sick. Word was sent to Jesus of Lazarus' illness, but after he heard it Jesus 

remained in the same place for two days longer. He was preparing to teach mankind a great 

lesson concerning the dead and how they shall be awakened out of the sleep of death. At the 

end of the two days, speaking to his disciples, he said, 'Our friend Lazarus sleepeth.' His 

disciples replied, 'Lord if he sleepeth he doeth well, but Jesus spake of his death, but they 

thought he had spoken of taking rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, 'Lazarus is 

dead.' Thomas suggested that they go to Bethany at once. Jesus and his disciples went. Arriving 

at Bethany they found that Lazarus had been dead and buried for four days. Jesus here 

performed a great miracle, which testified in no uncertain terms as to the condition of the dead 

and proves beyond all doubt that the dead are wholly unconscious until the awakening to the 

resurrection. Mark what he did! He did not call Lazarus out of heaven, nor out of purgatory, nor 

a lake of fire and brimstone, but after giving thanks to God he went to the grave, which was a 

cave in the hillside, and cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth,' and the dead came forth. 

"Let my opponent answer this question if he will: If Lazarus was at all conscious during the 

four days that he was dead and in the grave, why is there not some proof of it some-where to be 

found in the Bible? Jesus was here showing how the dead are to be awakened out of the sleep 

of death. It was of the greatest importance, if Lazarus had been conscious, that some proof of 

that fact might have been recorded. The fact that nothing is said about his being conscious, 

taken in con-junction with numerous other Scriptures that show that the dead are wholly 

unconscious, is conclusive proof that Lazarus was unconscious for four days while dead and 

likewise conclusive proof that all the dead are unconscious until the moment of awakening. 

 THE PROPOSITION. 

"The proposition under discussion as stated is a clear admission that the dead are unconscious 

for the reason it assumes -- that there is to be an awakening. Mark the words thereof, 'that the 

dead are unconscious from the moment of death until the moment of awakening to the 

resurrection of the dead.' If the dead were already conscious it follows that they would already 

be awake and therefore there could be no awakening; hence, my opponent admits by the 

statement of the proposition that his contention is wrong. 

"Jesus points out that all the dead are to be awakened to the resurrection. (John 5:28-29.) 

Awakened from where? we ask. From heaven? Purgatory? An intermediate state? Hell, fire and 

brimstone, or where? Let my opponent answer, but before he answers let God's word answer, 

which says, "They that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.' (Daniel 12:2.) 

WHAT IS TO BE AWAKENED. 

"What, then, is to be awakened to the resurrection, the soul, body or what? My opponent will 

tell you that the soul is still alive, therefore awake; hence could not be awakened. To be 

consistent, he will be compelled to say that it is the body thatis to be awakened. Then we ask 

him, if the soul is alive without a body and is enjoying life, and the same old body that it once 

had is to be awakened, why cumber it with that body? Such a contention is wholly 

unreasonable. These old bodies have given us a great deal of trouble. Most men who live to 

maturity, or beyond that, have bodies that are very ugly, and I am sure it would not be a joy to 

think about carrying around such a body to endless ages. 

"But how absurd the proposition that it is this old body that is to be awakened! How would that 

body ever be gotten together? To illustrate: A man dies and is buried. Later an orange tree is 

planted upon his grave. The roots, running down into the grave, absorb all the chemical 

elements of that body and these, in turn, are transmitted to the bud that forms the fruit. The fruit 

matures. Some of it is fed to pigs and these are shipped away and consumed by man, other 

parts of the oranges are shipped to different parts of the earth, and thus the chemical elements 

of that body are scattered everywhere. The further we pursue this illustration, the more absurd 

bodily resurrection seems. We are not surprised, then, that St. Paul says, in 1 Corinthians 

15:35-38, 'Some men will say, how are the dead raised up and with what body to they come? 

Thou fool; that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die, and that which thou sowest, 

thou sowest not the body that shall be * * but God giveth it a body as it pleaseth him.' It is not 

at all the body that is to be resurrected, and this is clearly shown by the words above quoted, 

'God giveth it a body.' What is the 'it?' Mark you, 'it' is that which is resurrected. If my 

opponent says the body is resurrected and then God gives it a body, it follows that it has two 

bodies. 

"When we get a clear understanding of God's plan, this Scripture is entirely clarified. God 

formed man of the dust of the earth, breathed into his nostrils, and man became a living soul. 

The soul was the it. In proof of that mark the words 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' 

Therefore, God made the soul the it. The soul, it dies, and St. Paul says the soul is resurrected, 

and God gives it -- the soul, the being, the man, the creature -- a body as it pleaseth him. And then, in the context, he points out that some will receive spiritual bodies and others natural 

bodies. 

"We submit, upon the whole, that the Scriptures clearly teach that man is a soul; that the soul is 

mortal, subject to God's law; that the soul means man, the creature; the soul (man, creature) 

dies, and would forever remain out of existence, except that God has made provision for 

redemption, awakening and resurrection, and the Scriptures with one accord conclusively prove 

that the soul is unconscious from the moment of death to the moment of awakening to the 

resurrection. 

"Keeping clearly in mind these great truths, the debate tomorrow evening will demonstrate, 

likewise clearly, that God is not a fiend, as has been charged, but a great God of love, justice, 

wisdom and power. 

RICH MAN AND LAZARUS. 

"My opponent will cite the rich man and Lazarus in proof that the dead are conscious after 

death and before awakening to the resurrection. A careful examination of this text shows that it 

does not sustain his theory. I am going to ask him now, when he does cite that text, to answer 

this question, Is that scriptural statement to be taken literally or symbolically? Was Jesus 

describing a reality that then existed, or was he giving a parable to teach some lesson? I don't 

care which way he answers it, he will be in a hole. If he answers, 'It is to be taken literally,' then 

you will see the utter absurdity it expresses. If he answers. 'It is a parable,' then it absolutely 

disproves his position. 

MOUNT TRANSFIGURATION. 

"Another text my opponent will doubtless use is that concerning Moses and Elijah on the 

Mount of Transfiguration, to prove that the dead are conscious while dead. But if you will read 

the context it will readily be seen that Jesus plainly states that this was a vision. Note, he said, 

as they come down from the mountain, 'Tell the vision to no man until the Son of Man is risen 

from the dead.' (1 Corinthians 15:20; Colossians 1:18.) Moses and Elijah are yet dead. 

(Hebrews 11:39.) What really transpired on the mount is this, as the text shows, Jesus caused 

these disciples to see a vision for the purpose of teaching them a lesson. Moses represented the 

faithful ones of the Jewish age and who will be members of the earthly phase of Christ's 

kingdom. Elijah represented the faithful ones of the Gospel age, who will be members of the 

heavenly phase of Messiah's kingdom. These two phases of the kingdom I will especially set 

forth in my argument on Friday evening. 

MOSES AND THE RESURRECTION. 

"Brother Troy will insist that Jesus taught that the dead are alive when he said, 'Now that the 

dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham 

and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living, 

for all live unto Him.' (Luke 20:37-38.) But mark, Jesus' words are, 'Now that the dead are 

raised up.' Moses, Abraham and the other prophets were dead at the time Jesus spoke, but since God's plan provides for their resurrection he spoke of things that are to be as though they were. 

(Romans 4:17.) All live from God's standpoint, for the reason he has made provision for their 

resurrection, not that they are actually alive. Death, therefore, is spoken of, as we have shown, 

as sleep. The emphatic Diaglott gives this text the proper rendering and makes it plain. It says, 

'But that the dead arise, even Moses has declared.' That is to say, Jesus was producing the 

argument that Moses had shown that there is to be a resurrection of the dead, and that argument 

was in answer to those who claimed that there was to be no resurrection. 

THIEF IN PARADISE. 

"My opponent would have you believe that the thief 

went to heaven the very day that Jesus was crucified 

upon the cross, because Jesus said, 'Verily, I say unto 

you, today thou shalt be with me in Paradise.' Does my 

opponent believe that the thief went to heaven before 

the Lord Jesus got there? I am sure you do not. We 

know that Jesus was dead for three days and after his 

resurrection he stated to the women that sought to take 

hold upon him, 'Touch me not, for I have not yet 

ascended to my Father.' Forty days later he ascended 

into haven. Where was the thief all that time? We 

answer, the thief was dead, is still dead and will remain 

dead until the time of the resurrection. 

Paradise does not mean heaven; it means the restored 

earth, the proof of which we will give in our Friday 

evening argument. The reason this text is misleading is 

that, when translated, the punctuation mark, the comma, 

was placed after the word 'thee,' making it read, 'Verily, 

I say unto thee, today thou shalt be with me in 

Paradise.' The Greek language had no punctuation 

marks; the translators had no authority to put this 

comma where they did. Put the emphasis where it 

belongs and this text reads, 'Verily, I say unto thee 

today (that is to say, I am telling you now, this dark day) 

Attorney J. F. Rutherford, Who Declares Dead Do Not Suffer. 

 thou shalt be with me in Paradise,' meaning, when I come into the kingdom and establish the 

paradise, of earth. 

"My opponent cites 2 Corinthians 5:6 for the purpose of showing that the dead are conscious 

while not in the body of flesh. He does not properly apply this Scripture. The words are not 

spoken concerning the world in general, but applied only to the faithful Christians. These, at the 

time of consecration and acceptance by the Lord, are begotten to a heavenly life and thereby 

become new creatures and from God's standpoint are counted dead as human beings. (1 Peter 

1:3, 4; Colossians 3:3, 4.) In the latter Scriptures, St. Paul states that the new creature receives 

his life at the second coming of Christ Jesus when he partakes of the first resurrection. 

"Now, while living in this old body, the Christian is absent from the Lord. And after death and 

until the second coming of the Lord, and therefore until the resurrection, the Christian dead are 

completely out of existence except in the memory Jehovah and are spoken of as 'naked,' that is 

to say, in the grave awaiting the resurrection, and therefore absent from the Lord. But St. Paul 

expresses his great desire to be invested or clothed with the new spiritual body and thus be at 

home, the heavenly home with Christ Jesus the Lord. He did not expect this to take place as 

soon as he died, but at the second coming of Christ, he expressed himself to Timothy, saying: 

'The time of departure is at hand. Henceforth there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me 

which that righteous judge shall give to at that day, and not to me only, but to all who love his 

appearing. (2 Timothy 4:7, 8.).