Acts ch.7:15-27NIV"“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat agains"
Galatians ch.5:22,23NIV"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
Galatians ch.5:19-21NIV"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Ps. No Spamming allowed,I hope I'm not talking over anyone's head.
Your argument relies on a misinterpretation of Scripture and a fallacious application of the Donatist principle to claim that the Catholic Church is false based on the sins of some of its members. The argument draws heavily on Matthew 7:15–27, claiming that "bad fruit" in the actions of certain Catholics invalidates the entire Church. However, this interpretation overlooks critical aspects of the passage. The context is false prophets, not institutions: Jesus warns against individuals who claim to be PROPHETS and teach false doctrines and exploit others while appearing pious. He does not teach that an entire Church is invalidated by the sins of some of its members. "Fruit" refers to teachings as well as behavior: The metaphor of fruit encompasses both the moral lives of individuals and the soundness of their teachings. The Catholic Church has consistently upheld sound doctrine (e.g., the Trinity, the Incarnation, the authority of Scripture), despite the personal failings of some of its members. In the the parable of the wheat and the weeds (Matthew 13:24–30), Jesus explicitly teaches that both good and bad individuals will exist within the visible Church until the final judgment, when God Himself will separate the righteous from the wicked. This contradicts the idea that a church with sinners must be false.
ReplyDeleteYour argument selectively highlights the sins of individuals within the Catholic Church while ignoring the vast "good fruit" that it has produced over centuries. The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world, providing hospitals, schools, orphanages, and relief services globally. This reflects the "fruit of the Spirit" (Galatians 5:22–23) more than isolated failings do. Catholicism has been a driving force behind Western civilization’s development, from preserving knowledge in monasteries to supporting scientific advances (e.g., the Big Bang theory was proposed by Georges Lemaître, a Catholic priest). The Church has produced countless saints who exemplified the fruits of the Spirit, including St. Francis of Assisi, St. Teresa of Calcutta, and St. John Paul II. These individuals embody the love, joy, peace, and self-control described in Galatians 5:22–23.
The claim that the Catholic Church must be false because of the sins of some of its members mirrors the Donatist heresy, which the Church condemned in the 4th century. Catholic theology teaches that the Church is the Body of Christ, guided by the Holy Spirit, but composed of fallible humans. Just as the sins of Judas did not invalidate the Apostolic College, the sins of some Catholics do not invalidate the Church. Scripture provides numerous examples of God working through flawed individuals, such as King David, who committed adultery and murder, and Peter, who denied Christ. These failings did not disqualify them from their God-given roles.
The reference to Galatians 5:19–23 misunderstands the distinction between individual behavior and institutional teaching. Paul condemns individual acts of the flesh, not institutions: Paul’s warning in Galatians addresses personal sin, not the legitimacy of entire churches. Judging an institution solely by the behavior of some of its members is both unbiblical and illogical. The Church calls for repentance: The Catholic Church consistently teaches against the works of the flesh listed in Galatians 5:19–21. It disciplines clergy and laity who fail to live up to its teachings, demonstrating its commitment to holiness.
Let me make something clear here there will be no spamming up of my channel o.k especially since I can't leave any comment on your channel
DeleteMy argument relies on results in the real world luke ch.7:35 makes it plain that that is how wisdom ,especially divine wisdom is to be appraised christendom has failed utterly in that regard perfection is hardly the issue the mass murder and gross immorality that has resulted from christendom's failure to properly understand and apply the Bible individually and collectively cannot simply be blamed on imperfection the way some annoying quirk like tardiness or gossiping can ,it is the kind of gross wrongdoing that those seeking truth ,should rightly expect the faithful church to absolutely not tolerate.
ReplyDeleteMany criminal organisations also provide social services that dies nor cleanse them of the guilt they accrue, none of the dead that have died owing to your failure to impress upon your flock the seriousness of JEHOVAH'S Moral law will be brought back your attempt to buy your way into paradise will fail and it's the fact that the church allows those living in open defiance if JEHOVAH'S Law that is the problem even allowing them to teach the Bible us clear that teachers who set up their own standard are to be removed.
ReplyDeleteRevelation ch.1:6
The straw clumsy exegesis of Bible prophesy is hardly to be compared with the plank of industrial scale mass fratricide,and openly gay clergy and lay teachers making excuses for defiance of JEHOVAH'S plainly stated law ,isn't it true that their are churches where those living in sin as it used to he called can go and receive sacrament, what ever procedure you may have for dealing with indiscipline us clearly not working, the church must kept pure that us not a negation of JEHOVAH'S mercy in ensures that those who catch themselves and return to JEHOVAH Have a church worth returning to,if the church is no different from the world why bother to come to the church in the first place,I come to JEHOVAH'S house because I know that my indwelling hunger for JEHOVAH'S Holiness will be filled there if it is no different from the world,then why waste the effort,the brother of those eagerly striving to renain mindful of our sacred oath is better than anything the world can offer. The fact despite the nonstop efforts if Satan's minions to turn us away even stooping to violence, most brothers remain mindful if their oath to the Lord JEHOVAH is evidence of his efficacy
ReplyDeleteI am not singling out any particular church ,the catholic church all things considered is probably not the worst offender when it comes to political and ethnic conflict but it must accept community guilt because it has not made it clear to its members that slaughtering fellow humans is absolutely prohibited for Christians even if some politician or political party demands it,that is a fail if it had we would not have to witness the sad spectacle of supposed disciples of the prince of peace slaughtering each other on an unprecedented scale. Your churchmen have justified war including the colonial wars which many viewed as a necessary precursor to their missionary work.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you allowing pride flags to fly in your sanctuary,it doesn't matter what you say if advocates are allowed to speak from the pulpit and the non biblical view is promulgated that sexual immorality is a minor matter that sincere people can disagree about. Tolerance for immorality does immediately invalidate any claim of representing JEHOVAH, Only those who get bsptized are in line for the bible's sanction and we don't have to worry about eternal conscious torment which is far more fear inducing than being left alone by some hated minority, the disfellowshiped one is free to revel in the embrace of Satan's world why would that not be a fair trade if we are as transparently wicked as our enemies depict us. Disfellowshiping is a good thing by our enemies logic.
There is no correction, you live the same kind of unconsecrated life as the unbeliever and both you and them get the same reward,why embrace discipline then?
Don't vow if you don't intend to pay, the sanction is there to keep people out not to keep anyone in the church is not some kind of social club,it is supposed to be a token of the new world to come, a union of those transformed by an actual encounter with the risen Christ, one that gives them a strong enough faith to face the same kind of death our Lord faced,if this is not true of you,you are not ready for baptism, the sanction is there to make the deadly seriousness of your vow clear,better to not vow than vow falsely. If the sanction is nothing but a bluff then it can't serve its purpose if conveying solemnity to ones vow.
ReplyDeleteHow could I put faith in a christ who gives no evidence of an ability to bring about the transformation he promised,that kind of nominal ineffectual Christianity you are speaking of is not the Christianity of the bible church is supposed to provided clear evidence of Christ's resurrection from the dead if it is composed of untransformed individuals of if there is no meaningful difference between the average Christian and the average unbeliever this would only provide an opportunity for the enemies of christ to mock him,that his suffering and death was to no purpose and that no evidence of his resurrection is present among those who are supposed to provide such evidence, before their can be any mercy and grace their must first be repentance Matthew ch.4:17NIV"From that time on Jesus began to preach, “REPENT, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”"
DeleteRemember Eli the high priest ineffectually rebuke his sons and was content to go no further that was not good enough for JEHOVAH, He considered Eli's failure to remove these corrupt priest as a slap in the face,here is JEHOVAH'S Word against the blackness of Eli: 1Samuel ch.2:27-30NIV"Now a man of God came to Eli and said to him, “This is what the LORD says: ‘Did I not clearly reveal myself to your ancestor’s family when they were in Egypt under Pharaoh? 28I chose your ancestor out of all the tribes of Israel to be my priest, to go up to my altar, to burn incense, and to wear an ephod in my presence. I also gave your ancestor’s family all the food offerings presented by the Israelites. 29Why do you e scorn my sacrifice and offering that I prescribed for my dwelling? Why do you honor your sons more than me by fattening yourselves on the choice parts of every offering made by my people Israel?’
ReplyDelete30“Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the LORD declares: ‘Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained."
Remove the plank from your own eye first nincsnevem,there is no excuse for tolerating corruption at any level but especially not among those who are supposedly teachers of JEHOVAH'S Law.
https://aservantofjehovah.blogspot.com/2025/02/against-litigious-xxv.html
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