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Tuesday 17 December 2013

Make up your mind why don't you?

Find article here.


Walter Martin uses his version of this trinitarian "evidence" on pp. 69-70 of The Kingdom of the Cults (1985 ed.) to show that "Jesus ... was truly an incarnation of Jehovah":

"As recorded in the eighteenth chapter of Genesis, Abraham had three visitors. Two of them were angels (Genesis 19:1), but the third he addressed as Jehovah God, fourteen times! .... To further confuse the Witnesses' peculiar view of God as a solitary unit [only one person], Jesus Himself said concerning His Father, `... you have not at any time either heard his voice or seen his form ... for God is a Spirit ...' (John 4:24; 5:37). Now then, here is the evidence. Moses declares that God spoke face to face with Abraham (Gen. 18:26), and Jesus and John say, `No man hath seen God at any time.' But Jesus makes it clear that He is referring to the Father, and so does John [?]."

So, again, we find people in the Old Testament "seeing" God and the New Testament denying that any human has ever literally, physically seen God.

Martin then tells us that there is only one "solution to this dilemma": God the Father was in heaven while "God the Son" spoke face to face with Abraham (see the IMAGE study, p. 6 and f.n. #7). We already have seen another, more honest, "solution to this 'dilemma'" above. Now notice what Martin himself admits about this "dilemma" in a later place in this same book.

Martin tells us that the Mormon idea that the Father and the heavenly-resurrected Son are persons with bodies of flesh who can, therefore, be seen and touched by humans is totally false. He tells us that the angels in heaven are

" 'ministering spirits' (Hebrews 1:7), beings who have immaterial 'bodies' of spiritual substances and yet exist." - p. 205.

He then points out that God the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the Son (before coming to the earth as Jesus Christ) had "immaterial bodies" of spirit - p. 206.

Martin continues (p. 207):

"The Mormon teaching that God was seen 'face to face' in the Old Testament (Exodus 33:9, 11, 23; Exodus 24:9-11; Isaiah 6:1, 5; Genesis 5:24; Genesis 6:5-9, etc.) is refuted on two counts, that of language and the science of comparative textual analysis (hermeneutics).

"From the standpoint of linguistics, all the references cited by the Mormons to prove 'that God has a physical body that could be observed' melt away in the light of God's expressed declaration, 'Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me and live' (Exodus 33:20).

"Exodus 33:11 (face to face) in the Hebrew is rendered `intimate' and in no sense is it opposed to verse 20. Similar expressions are utilized in Deuteronomy 5:4, while in Genesis 32:30 it is the angel of the Lord who speaks, not Jehovah himself. The Old Testament is filled with theophanies (literally, Godforms), instances where God spoke or revealed Himself in angelic manifestations...."

Isn't it strange that when he wants to defend a trinity idea, Martin can find only one explanation for God speaking face to face with someone: Jesus was God! And yet, when he needs a different understanding for a different purpose, he can see a different (and more honest in this case) explanation.

Notice that Martin claims that Jesus is equally God with the Father and that they both had immaterial spirit bodies during the time written about in the Old Testament. Having immaterial spirit bodies and being God, neither of them could have been seen by humans! However, if Jesus had had the same type of spirit body that the other sons of God (angels) had, and if he were not God, he could have temporarily assumed a body of flesh during a meeting with humans upon earth just as they did at various times in the Old Testament.

But God (whether father, son, "cousin," "uncle," "nephew," etc.) has never been seen by man - Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12.

As Martin tells us,

"all the references cited ... to prove 'that God has a physical body that could be observed' melt away in the light of God's expressed declaration, 'Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me and live' (Exodus 33:20)."

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